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FreeFlow combat

Spider-Man

Great job. You can try aplikasi maxtube for peace.

sjalan
Likes: 0
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎17-05-2019

i guess freeflow combat wouldnt be a bad addition to spidey, but it doesnt fit him

ShangChi
Likes: 0
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎18-11-2009

why not? I think he should be fluid fighter. Your thoughts?

NYCstreets
Likes: 0
Posts: 297
Registered: ‎27-05-2009

Whelp, I just registered here for the express purpose of offering my musings on this particular subject (long-winded text ahead; will try my best to format for readability).

FreeFlow combat, as you describe it, would be the best thing to happen to Spidey since Stan Lee hisself. Now, I'm obviously not saying we should give the web-head pointy ears, a snazzy black cape, a utility belt, and make him run around solving crimes (okay, a little more attention paid to his intellect would be nice; contrary to popular belief, Spidey isn't a brick-headed "smash 'em up hurr" super-hero). By that, I mean an exact replication of Batman: Arkham Asylum's gameplay is NOT what I have in mind. I'll start by explaining what exactly makes B:AA's combat system so fluid and intuitive, followed by relating it to Spider-man and his modus operandi (Peter's fighting style), and end with whatever important tidbits I feel I missed earlier on account of winging it on almost 24 hours deprived of sleep.

B:AA was a superb game; not just from a gameplay perspective, but every inch of it was like a Batfan's wet-dream. That's not important here, however, because we're not discussing games for Batfans but rather for True-believers. So onto the actual nitty gritty of game design, as that is a topic that actually translates well between the two. B:AA's combat system was airtight, usable, and altogether one of the most intuitive combat systems I've ever seen, but for VERY SUBTLE reasons. What made it so intuitive aren't the specific tailorings that pertain to Batman's fighting style, but rather a handful of underlying design decisions that formed an extremely strong foundation on which to craft a system that does Batman absolute justice. Some of you say that the system wouldn't work for Spider-Man, but are you looking at the system as a whole, the Batman flavoring and all, or are you looking at the fundamentals on which the Batman design is built? That's a bit like dying of thirst in the desert and, when offered a glass of lemonade, denying it on the basis that "lemons are tart and make me feel thirstier". Well, point isn't the lemons, it's the water that serves as the basis for that lemonade. Now, on to the nitty gritty. There are a handful of subtle, non-Batman specific design decisions that just work well in B:AA.

The first is the targeting system. It's very tight, but not restrictive. The way the devs achieved this was by starting with the basics; "You hit the attack button, and Batman strikes at the nearest enemy." Simple, and intuitive; the player inputs a command and receives a meaningful effect in-game. This establishes a sense of fulfillment, no wasted energy or time punching in random directions, not to mention it helps tremendously with the flow and immersion of combat and gives it a tight, polished feel to it. Next, another layer of interaction is added, in that if you want to attack in a specific direction, you can override the auto-targeting by pressing in the direction you want the attack to go. This gives some additional depth to the system while maintaining the tight, visceral feel as well as avoiding frustration. A+ development right there. Additionally, the counter system provides a clear indication that you're being attacked (the squiggles above both Batman's and the attacker's heads) and immediate effect, meaning it doesn't disrupt the flow of combat and further prevents frustration, but the fact that it's in the player's hands completely also gives the player a sense of accomplishment. Interactive yet intuitive. In addition, there's a healthy dose of context-sensitive elements that are within the player's control that allows them to do cool things that have significance in the encounter (notably, jumping over enemies when you dodge in their direction). Finally, and this is perhaps the most important point (especially for the likes of Spider-Man), the camera! The camera was expertly coded in B:AA. It kept all the important info in it during combat: The enemies you are engaged with are all contained in it, as are you. This is very important, as it doesn't matter how good the combat system is, consistently bad camera angles and wonky behavior will absolutely ruin it, especially for a combatant as reliant on mobility as Spider-Man.

Now, tell me those basic design approaches can't be built on to create a fighting system that does Spidey justice. Obviously, Spidey's fighting style is far different from Batman's. Batman is a more static fighter, only displacing a large area when his current position becomes tactically unsound. His moves are more grapple based, focused on swiftly taking each opponent out of the fight. Spidey's radically different, thanks to his super-human speed, strength, bodily awareness, balance, flexibility, stamina, and webbing. Spider-Man's fighting style is much more about confusing and dis-coordinating his enemies through superior mobility. He moves quickly between elements, ranges, and positions, making it very difficult to follow and engage him. One minute he's on the ground, the next he's on the wall behind you, then he's high up on the ceiling engaging your allies with webbing, fracturing and dividing your group, etc. So, you've got to make a fluid combat system that not only stresses mobility, but mobility within a wide range of battlefield elements and a healthy mix thereof. Personally, I would start off with the counter mechanic. Instead of countering enemies, pressing the button would result in a dodge, which would subsequently result in a fair amount of displacement (whether that be getting airborne, sliding underneath or vaulting over, or getting onto a wall) with the ability to create your own counters combining webbing and close range brawling (a healthy dose of Context Sensitive (tm) would ideally be placed here, resulting in wildly different combos depending on the dodge performed and the subsequent attacks).

NoUsernamesHere
Likes: 0
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎03-05-2012

(continued from last post)

Additionally, there would be a large investment in fighting elements for going vertical, being airborne, and all three (ground, air, and vertigo) should have plenty of Web-based supplement, not to mention good blending within themselves (although, to be fair and to make it easy, fighting on walls and ceilings and such wouldn't be as different to fighting on ground as fighting in air would be).

Oh, and for the love of Raptor Jesus, be DONE with that cartoony "webhammer/club/Green Lantern Web-esque" crap, and while we're at it, the Captain Falcon movesets can go right along with it, like that Falcon Kick stuff. You can make a PLAUSIBLE Spider-Man style without flying in the face of physics based on the fact he has super-human speed, strength, bodily awareness, balance, flexibility, and stamina. Oh, and dodging should always be an active thing, even when bullets are involved, and it should be doable in the air, acrobatically.

Anyway, I'm sorry about the rant, but sleep deprivation and all that.

NoUsernamesHere
Likes: 0
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎03-05-2012

There should be no apologies, what a deep thoughtful post that was. Also have to say, welcome to the forums!

"Personally, I would start off with the counter mechanic. Instead of countering enemies, pressing the button would result in a dodge, which would subsequently result in a fair amount of displacement" I believe Ultimate Spiderman, the game, had this dodge move in it.

thespectre
Likes: 0
Posts: 4965
Registered: ‎14-04-2009

Thanks NoUserNames. I think you pretty much just said everything I really wanted to but haven't had the time to. Don't you dare apologize. I especially agree with your statements about removing the ridiculous web-attacks (web-hammers are fun and all, but they kinda throw realism out the window), an dabout remembering what physics are when fighting as Spider-Man.

Thanks so much, and welcome to the forums Smiley Happy

NYCstreets
Likes: 0
Posts: 297
Registered: ‎27-05-2009

The guy can cling to walls and walk on the ceiling, I think realism went out the window a loooooong time ago. Smiley Tongue

Optimus_prime12 Level 75
Likes: 3
Posts: 25723
Registered: ‎12-06-2009

The guy can cling to walls and walk on the ceiling, I think realism went out the window a loooooong time ago. Smiley Tongue

see that's the problem, people see Spidey's powers and figure "meh, no realism," and apparently decide that also excludes the laws of physics. I agree that his ability to cling to walls (and every other power of his) throws staight-up realism out the window, that doesn't mean we can't ground the game in a basis of realism. We suspend disbelief to accept the existance of his powers, but we should still get a realistic look of how his powers would react with thier environment properly. Take Batman: (Not comparing because I think Spider-Man needs to mimic B:AA, but because that game was a successful super hero game and certain things about it should be applied to games in general, including Spider-Man) We kind of have to suspend disbelief to accept that he is THAT good a fighter, that he can carry all those gadgets on his belt at once, that he doens't get tired after battling all night, but the way he uses his gadgets and how he fights still very much seems 'real.' everything in the game obeys the laws of physics and react with each other believably, even when said thing is a 60 foot tall man eating plant controlled by a chlorophyll-crazed bikini model.

NYCstreets
Likes: 0
Posts: 297
Registered: ‎27-05-2009

Realism just doesn't matter much to me, I just want to be entertained and have fun.

Optimus_prime12 Level 75
Likes: 3
Posts: 25723
Registered: ‎12-06-2009
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