Call of Duty Black Ops II Xbox 360

Thank you Treyarch!

Dear Treyarch,

I know you've been receiving a lot of... well, less than polite feedback about Black Ops 2 on these forums recently.  I just wanted to take the time to let you know that hundreds of thousands (probably the majority if the people I've spoken to are any indication) of people like me thoroughly enjoy the game you've given us even if we are significantly less vocal about it than those who hate it.  Black Ops 2 is easily the best CoD game we've gotten so far and I'll be playing it for many months (years?) to come.  Thanks for all the hard work and the great product!

Now since I know this thread will soon be bombed with venomous comments telling me I'm an idiot for liking Black Ops 2, I'm going to save myself some time and post my reasons for dismissing most of the major complaints against the game right up front.  Warning: this may be TLSmiley Very HappyR for some of you kiddies out there.

1.  "Spawning sucks!"  No, it doesn't.  You just don't understand how the system works because you are too busy running all over the map like a madman.  Black Ops 2 has the most predictable spawn system ever seen in a Call of Duty game.  The spawn flop point on nearly every map (except Overflow) is right about at the 2/3 marker from your original spawn.  If someone goes past that and into the enemy spawn, enemies will begin to spawn behind you.  This can become a cascade effect since the probability of an enemy spawning there increases with the number of enemies in close proximity to the spawn.  This is why you keep getting shot in the back.  If both teams are spread all over the map, the game will spawn you in the best place it can come up with in the few seconds after you die.  Sometimes this is right in front of an enemy.  That's what happens when everyone runs around like they're playing Quake Arena.  If you don't like crazy spawns or getting shot in the back, stop going into the other team's spawn area.  This doesn't mean you have to camp, it just means you shouldn't go past the 2/3 point on any given map.  If you get a good team together and use your heads more than your legs, you can easily predict and even control the spawning patterns of a less organized team.   Or maybe you'd like to return to the ridiculously random spawning found in MW3? 

2.  "Lag compensation sucks!"  No, it doesn't.  All modern big-name titles use lag compensation in some form.  They have to.  Have you ever played a peer-to-peer game that doesn't use lag compensation?  Unless you are playing with someone practically next door, it usually results in bullet lag (I'm talking a full second delay on impact), players skipping around unpredicatably, and choppiness for the person shooting.  It's true that sometimes lag comp causes some weird and perhaps not totally legitimate things to happen, but for every one bad death you get as a result of it you probably get five kills that you didn't even realize it helped you with.  I hope the next CoD game is on dedicated servers, but lag comp will always be a part of any multiplayer game.  Given the huge number of people who play CoD and the massive variation in internet connection quality among those players, Blops 2 would be essentially unplayable without it.

3.  "The maps suck!"  I suppose this one is too subjective to really argue effectively, but I like all of the maps except Overflow.  They are about the right size (bigger than MW3, smaller than Blops 1) and eliminate the frustratingly predictable linearity that the MW maps tend to have.  There is a lot of verticality in most of them and yes, there are a lot of angles looking at any given spot.  That's how a good shooter map should be.  You should never be totally safe, and in Black Ops 2 you never are.  No position offers full view of a map thanks to some cleverly strategic object placement and there are always multiple ways to approach any given spot.  The maps are also varied in terms of appearance and layout and like I said before they all feature predictable spawn flop points that good teams can use to control the game.   I can't understand the complaint against bright colors being used, either.  Would you really prefer a return to the grey, brown, black pallet of the MW games or even Blops 1? 

4. "SMGs are overpowered!"  No more so than in any other CoD game or even other shooters.  Core mode weapon selection in these games almost always results in the weapon with the highest RoF being chosen.  In nine out of ten cases, that's an SMG.  This is why I play hardcore.  All the weapons are equally effective against a squishy human target (as they should be since they are modern military-grade firearms), so weapon choice comes down to personal preference and style instead of a default most-bullets-least-time selection.  I think you guys are suffering from a bit of selective amnesia as well; the P-90 started off overpowered in nearly every CoD game it's appeared in and Blops 1 featured an AK-74 that would make God jealous in its early days.  That's just part of CoD's design and always has been.  If you don't like it, there are game modes that will eliminate the issue.  Otherwise, shut up and wait for the inevitable nerf.  Goodness. 

I think that about covers it.  Thanks again Treyarch!  I'm off to finish up my first prestige. 

Sixgears2
Likes: 11
Posts: 37
24 REPLIES
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Re: Thank you Treyarch!

in reply to Sixgears2

haha, typical first post discussion. You want to get attention of having a thread that becomes a flame war. congrats

zingaa
Likes: 772
Posts: 2142

Re: Thank you Treyarch!

in reply to zingaa

I don't understand this thinking.

It's no wonder all you see is complaining.

The second someone makes one comment saying they actually enjoy something, they get jumped on.

TRYHARDCAMPERQQNOOBUMADBROGTFO

And all that good stuff.

At this point, being a newer COD player, I'm more disappointed in the community than the developers.

Sure, BO2 could use some tweaks and I'd bet a dollar against any of you impatient toddlers it's going to get them.

Personally, I agree with most of this post. Though, I do hate the maps. Especially Turbine. Should pretty much only be in Groundwar, in my opinion.

DeadlySeker
Likes: 48
Posts: 227

Re: Thank you Treyarch!

in reply to DeadlySeker

Finally someone else who thinks Turbine needs to be Groundwar only.

I think it'd be ok for Search but it's HORRIBLE for everything else imo... Talk about unfished games.

Film_Not_Rated
Likes: 171
Posts: 1191

Re: Thank you Treyarch!

in reply to zingaa

You're wrong.  I have no interest in a flame war.  I just thought it would be nice for the devs to see that there are those of us who think they've done a great job.  "Typical first post."  Judge much?

Sixgears2
Likes: 11
Posts: 37

Re: Thank you Treyarch!

in reply to Sixgears2

I like the write - up. And I agree with you on most of them! These forums are usually all about X company sucks and X game is better. Nice to see to positives!

specialdelivery
Likes: 32
Posts: 306

Re: Thank you Treyarch!

in reply to Sixgears2

Well I think the maps are terrible, the spawns are as bad as you can imagine, the netcode is horrific and the gunplay is the worst in the entire series.  At the end of the day all this stuff comes down to personal opinion.

The biggest problem is treyarch had always focused on rewarding skilled play previously.  Now they jumped into bed with IW and made the most casual friendly game they possibly could.

cwatz
Likes: 151
Posts: 632

Re: Thank you Treyarch!

in reply to cwatz

I don't think there's much about Black Ops 2 that can be called casual friendly outside of the matchmaking.  Players who don't know what they are doing are usually utterly demolished by those who do and the game has a pretty steep learning curve if you ever want to do well. 

I've already gone over the spawns so I won't beat that dead horse, but I challenge you to find me another peer-to-peer multiplayer game that has run as well as this one in its first week.  I've had a few issues here or there, but for the most part my group of 20 or so rotating friends have had very few major problems.  20 may not be high enough to be statistically valid, but it's enough for me to feel comfortable saying that a majority of Blops 2 players are getting along just fine.  The forums are full of compainers that make it seem like the game is broken for everyone, but that's only because the vast majority of the community is too busy enjoying the game to come over to the forums and defend it (thus my post).  It may be worse for you because of some variable that I don't know about, but the netcode is working just fine on my end 90% of the time and will be vastly improved in the coming weeks/months.  Online multiplayer will never work 100% perfectly 100% of the time.   You either accept that or you don't play.

Sixgears2
Likes: 11
Posts: 37

Re: Thank you Treyarch!

in reply to Sixgears2

Sixgears2 wrote:

Given the huge number of people who play CoD and the massive variation in internet connection quality among those players, Blops 2 would be essentially unplayable without it.

Hmmm, so how did we do it back in the days of Unreal Tournament?  Back then it was dedicated servers (I used to lease one myself) and you could SEE what kind of game you were getting in (see your ping on that server and every players ping to make your own judgement on whether or not you wanted to play in THAT game [i.e. if the player/team ping was balanced]).  I also don't believe UT had any lag compensation, it was straight up.  They had mods like Zero Ping, which basically made it just like this lag compensation in COD...everything LOOKS legit, feels like it has no lag...but your shots just don't register...they would shoot right through guys.

Either way, with ALLLLLLLLLLLLL those players, why not give us the option to pick our own matches vs forcing us on lag compensation and THEIR matchmaking algorithm.  Expose the information, get ride of this crap 1 bar, 2 bar, 3 bar, 4 bar connection icon which is utterly useless and let us connect to a host (if you aren't going dedicated servers) and see what everyone's ping is to that host.  Give us the OPTION to join lobbies without lag compensation.

The way this game operates is like taking a step backwards, you are forcing whatever your worldwide solution ideal is (and it's inherent flaws based on your assumptions) and stripping away the judgement ability of gamers to choose their own games.  Right now we have NO IDEA what kind of game we are getting into until we start playing it and wind up emptying 30 rounds into a guy while he picks up his gun and shoots us with 1 shot for the kill.  Whatever conditions create that I would like to avoid, and the only way I can avoid is it by either not playing the game or having MORE information in which to make a decision as to whether or not that game lobby is one I'd like to play in.  Right now, the latter is NOT an option, only the prior is.

JMHO, but this game is virutally unplayable for me right now.  I haven't prestiged yet, perhaps there's some magic pill combination of gun/attachments/perks that will help offset some of the lag compensation...but more than half the time I feel like I might as well not even have a gun in the game because pretty much everyone is unkillable.

Clov3r13
Likes: 11
Posts: 37

Re: Thank you Treyarch!

in reply to Clov3r13

I don't disagree that a server list could be added, but Call of Duty has always been about sitting down, pressing two or three buttons, and being in a game.  Most players are not going to want to sift through unsightly region-based server lists to find a game with 10 ms less ping than the one they are put into automatically.  Besides, the number of legitimately laggy games I've found myself in is probably less than 10% of my total games played.  That's a pretty good average.  If you''d like server lists I think that (correct me if I'm wrong) the PC  version of Blops 2 includes them.  They are only really found in PC games these days since consoles have become all about ease of use and quick action (BF3 is a notable exception).  It may be time for you to switch platforms. 

As far as the Unreal Tournament argument (love that game, by the way), you said it yourself: it had dedicated servers.  Peer-to-peer is a whole different animal.  I do agree that the next CoD basically has to be on dedicated servers and there's little reason that they haven't switched yet, but this is the best running peer-to-peer game I think I've ever played.  Is it perfect?  No, but no P2P multiplayer will be.  Interestingly, BF3 and Gears of War 3 both ran on dedicated servers and still employed lag compensation.

Overall the lag comp is simply the lesser of two evils.  Sure, you may alienate those with ludicrously fast internet and those with incredibly slow internet, but those probably account for 5-10% (estimate) of the community.  Everyone else falls into a middle speed range and for those people lag compensation must exist if everything is to run as smoothly as possible. 

Sixgears2
Likes: 11
Posts: 37

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