....And this is why K/D is such a useless Stat to look at in terms of judging one's "skill" in this game. If you're a K/D person, and you're not playing FFA or TDM, then you're a product of society for sure, and need to maybe look at finding yourself, and perhaps need a hug.
Note to the OP: Spawn killing is supposedly against the CoC, but I've been a part of, and on the sh*t end of the stick in these instances, and everyone I know who's done this or is still doing it on a regular basis, and almost every map is still playing.
im interested in you telling me what is a "good player" than..
because 1 if anyone can pad KD and its so easy to get, try doing it solo without a party to spawn kill with..
WL is only impressive if you play solo on a random team.. anyone can get more wins if you party up or in a clan..
most of the people in parties and clans only have like a 1.3 kd anyway, thats not always the case, but thats what Ive seen
then you have SPM which doesnt mean your a good player you just no how to get points.. you could be going negative and losing, and have a big SMP, so id like to know what constitutes a "good player"
I think what BOps2PI is trying to say is that the numbers are misleading and in many cases bogus. If someone with a high KD obtained via CTF were to step into the world of TDM or FFA, that KD would suffer.
Perhaps, one apprach can be clans on play and matched against clans; randoms (publics) are matched against randoms; and FULL parties are matched against FULL parties. This format may help feed the need for clans or parties to Spawn Kill or at least may rsult in some deciding against such practice.
why because of spawns?
Since others have undoubtedly explained the difference between spawn killing and spawn trapping, I'll jut attempt to explain why you really can't ban spawn trapping. The devs could improve the spawns or the map flow to make it more difficult to do but you can't ban people for doing it. Since DOM is a team based gamemode, every game will be won by the more coordinated team. In DOM you have one objective, to capture and hold flags longer than the enemy team. In order to do this you have to be able to suppress the enemy teams movements. It's not possible to do this without engaging the enemy and since the enemy only spawns at their home flag when you have two flags capped, there is no where else to engage them. Ergo the spawn trap. The only other method to play DOM would be to cap all three flags and hide in the possible spawn locations for your kills. This actually provides the enemy even less opportunity to make a comeback as they will be shot in the back nonstop. I understand your dislike of getting spawn trapped. Nobody likes it but its quite frankly how the game is built.
On the upside, however, DOM in BO2 does allow your team a chance to redeem themselves by having two rounds and alternating the home flag. Having that second round can make a big difference. I was playing DEMO the other night and in round one my team got manhandled. It was awful. We as a team couldn't get out of our spawn. I personnally was doing okay but because nobody else could get out it really didn't matter. So I decided to just work on getting my killstreaks going and saved them for round two. In round two, I hit them with everything including the kitchen sink and my team got revenge. We ended up going into overtime where we lost but I have to say that it was a total dogfight and a lot of fun despite getting spawn trapped early on. Spawn trapping is a part of the game and learning how to effectively deal with it may not be easy but it is necessary if you ever want to have those dogfight matches where you feel good about it even if you lost in the end.
If a person is holding the flag behind the spawn, why not spawn the person being camped at the other teams flag as if it were TDM instead of being spawned over and over in the same 3 places at your own base?
The opposing (spawn killing)team should be penalized for hiding behind your flag/spawn
Dont play DOM so I couldnt compare the to or come up with a similar scenario.
DOM will spawn you on the enemy home flag if an enemy has taken up residence in your home spawn. It won't do it if they are just running through your spawn but if they have a line of sight into your spawn it will cause the spawn to flip. However, it doesn't do this in DEMO or CTF that I'm aware of. Well it sort of does in that it pushes your spawn out to the alternative spawn point which is still on your starting half of the map and likely still an area that's well staked out by the enemy team.
Spawn trapping and Spawn killing are two different things.
One (spawn trapping) takes a tremendous amount of team work and coordination. Teams that work together are going to win more often and are going to be able to do this against randoms.
Spawn killing just happens. It happens more in this game because of several factors that have all come about due to all of the changes made from previous titles.
If you are mad about spawn killing don't blame the players blame the development team. They designed and created these god awful maps which are the reason you are here complaining.
Second before you complain about the players put your selves in thier shoes. You just had someone spawn in front of you. Do you A) kill them B) try to reverse direction and hope they don't follow you or kill you C) let them kill you D) Hope they are nice and you both go your separate ways? You do A you kill them and move along.
You are playing a kill or be killed game. If someone appears in front of you you are going to get killed. I played HC KC last night and 10 of my 20 deaths were because someone spawned behind me in the exact spot I just spawned 2 seconds before. Was I mad? Yes but not at the players they did not choose their spawn point the game did. Why were they spawned there because the maps are small and it was the only safe place.
Then there are score streaks. Do you know how people get high score streaks in CTF? They run around with the flag. They are playing the objective and they are being rewarded. Still think score streaks are a good idea? If they had to get 12, 15 or 18 kills they would not get the streaks as often. Most people can string 6 or 8 kills together and with the flag that is all you have to do.
Then there is the fact that ghost does not work the same way in this game. UAV or VSAT plus no Ghost means a team of 6 people are going hunting for you. I again attribute most of this to the map size because people can converge on a spawn quickly dispose of the players then move to the next spawn point. If someone else on your team can't get another VSAT from the first one than you are playing the game wrong. I have played entire matches of HC CTF where there is always a VSAT or UAV. Do you know how easy it is to spawn trap?
Here is the real kicker--- These chages are all changes that the community requested (still not sure who but Treyarch thought the community wanted these things). Sometimes things are the way they are for a reason and don't need to be changed.
1) Blops 1 - good medium to large maps -
Complaint - Not enough action -
Result: Blops 2 Small maps which leads to bad spawns, spawn killing and tons of spots to head glitch while spawn killing
2) Blops 1 - kill based kill streaks that don't stack
Complaints a) it is too hard to get streaks b) no one is playing the objective
Result:Blops 2 Score streaks - People get extra score for the streaks and are now abusing the objectives. Of course players still don't go for the objectives because they have streaks to protect.
3) Blops 1 - Ghost was containted blind eye, cold blooded along with Ghost
Complaint: Too many campers -
Result: Blops 2 Ghost only works when moving. Result: People
I have always been of the opinion that small maps mean more spawn killing. That score streaks were going to back fire and that changing ghost to the way it currenlty functions is a mistake.
It only takes smart people a few minutes to exploit the weakness in a system it would just maybe be helpful if some of those people worked at Treyarch so the exploits could be identified ahead of time.
Your point was well written, but I offer a suttle difference between my argument and your response. Having someone spawn in fornt of you while you're moving to a target and/or location is completely different than posting up with a clear line of site to the spawn area and tagging all whom spawn there. Add in positioning of teammates to furhter manipulate the spawn location and you get exactly what has made this game less enjoyable.
I enjoy a challenge but when my ability to defend myself is stripped away intentionally, it devalues my view and makes me less likely to further support this product. I suggest botcotting as a means to have the dev team step up and actually address the real issues ---- Spawn Killing.
As you are correct, if I am moving on a location and someone spawn directly in my path, I will not hesitate to shoot. But again, that is a showing of the less than briliant development of this game title.
I primarily play HC CTF and use to love Highlack being a small and fast pace game, but now it have become a less than desirable map.
The spawn killing you mention is still a result of the poor map design. Players are just exploiting what the developers failed to do which is design maps that allow players to spawn safely.
I can count on one hand the times I was spawn trapped in Blops 1 and apart from being spawn killed by kill streaks I would say the same about being spawn killed. This is common occurance in this game. I have not gotten worse and I am still playing with the same group of people. The map size has changed and thus the amount of spawn killing has increased.
There is a clear difference between the maps in Blops 1 and 2. To make the maps smaller they have removed the "buffer" zone between the "B" domination point and either "A" or "C". Now if you move past "B" you have a clear shot into the enemy spawn. This was never the case in previous games and it is why you are getting spawn killed.
The "buffer" zone allowed spawn trapping but provided a safe spawn for enemies. Remember each gametype is about map control. Proper control is done from a point more than half way on the map (past "B" and more on one side of the map near "A" or "C").
If you play CTF than you should know that you need to support the flag carrier. To do this you need to be in the proper position. Unfortunatley that means many times you are going to have teammates in a position near the enemy spawn or looking right into the enemy spawn points.
If you keep having problems go play S&D. You can't constantly die to spawn killing because you only get one life per round.