Is lag really the whole problem or...

Black Ops II Xbox 360

could movement speed be partly to blame. I would put forward the idea that perhaps we have ramped up the movement speed to much. Particularly when you add in the effects of lightweight and other weapon based movement increases. It would be interesting to monitor how often you appear behind the lag curve when facing off against a slower as compared to a faster moving opponent. I feel I lose more often to SMG lighweight combos then anything else but it could just be my perception.

Any thoughts?

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Posts: 97
Registered: ‎09-04-2012

Doubtful, in MW2 we had 100% full time sprinting with marathon and lightweight. In that game there weren't near as many hitbox issues as what we are seeing today.

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Posts: 293
Registered: ‎12-12-2012

False.. just because marathon doesnt let you sprint forever does not mean this game is slower. The general pase of this game is much higher and the general speed of movement is much faster in BO2. I mean they have a sensetivity 14 now. This does not help with the lag issues but it is not the primary factor

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Posts: 838
Registered: ‎14-11-2012

Lag is an uncontrolable variable....You can't make me have a slower internet than yours just because you don't play as good....

Lag has been there since the dawn of ONLINE gaming....

Weapon damage, player health, and health regeneration are also HUGE factors that alot of people ignore.

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Registered: ‎18-01-2013

True but if NiteFalken died a lot as result of lag, chances are it was manipulated illegally by a lag switcher.

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Registered: ‎17-11-2012

You are correct. The speed of the game is faster than prior versions and that is true for each version has increased the speed slightly. Players moving faster will increase the lag effect. To me it is obvious when you play the older games the players just aren't moving as fast. The characters used to run the 40 in 5 seconds now their down to 4 seconds flat.

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Posts: 393
Registered: ‎21-09-2012

There are a number of problems that add to the cheap death degree...but there is definitely some odd cameratrack/lag/lag comp issue.

Here a list of things that increase the cheap death opportunities:

- Lack of body blending cover

- Lack of numerous coverspots(compare the inside of the building of array, or Arkaden above the stairs, look at the objects and angles which all provide tons of cover opportunites. Now compare inside the buildings in raid or Hijacked or Meltdown. Outside is similar. There seems to be about 1/3rd the potential cover spots.)

- Cover and walls made of paper (you dont need FMJ to kill through most walls either. FMJ just seems to make your damage about 100% through anything and lets you do 50% of damage against the few invinicible or near invincible objects in the game.)

- 3-7 entries into every location (past games had some places with one entry, some with two, some with 3..and 4+ were rare or totally outside locations and generally speaking were the centers of choke points)

- Movement that seems to be 150-200% faster than in past games

- Faster strafing when not stocked, and even further improved stock strafing

- Shinier textures and player models, making every person or object stand out that much more

- Angular walls and entries (past games seemed to cut the maps into blocks to determine line of sight. This resulted in around 4 major possible directions of aim...and a fifth if you consider some elevated position. These angles result in MULTITUDEs of possible important directions dependent entirely on where the enemy is located. In other words, no matter how good you are, you can never 100% cover yourself, you can merely use the map to determine ally location and use areas with seemingly better hiding ability to move around the map, thus maximizing your ability to cover yourself as best as you can. I'm not sure what the self-defense likelihood is...but my guess is a careful approach lets you cover yourself closer to around 90% of the time, with 10% of the time never being safe)

- Revenge Spawns

- Two major Spawn locations (Past games had 3 to 4 major locations with some intermediary spots. Maps in this have two, with a possible intermediary spot(not guaranteed). A couple rare maps like Standoff have 3-4, all others seem to have two.

- More accurate weapons (it seems like automatics are heavily more accurate. SMGs shoot farther, and the king of automatic accuracy the M27 is a laser across the ENTIRE map. It has sniping accuracy, and you can even hold down the button till reload).

Likes: 49
Posts: 191
Registered: ‎14-12-2012

I like your analysis, LordPookums, overall.

However, I can't fully agree with the "body blending cover" part. There are areas of the maps where players blend in all too well. On Raid, for example, there are several places where there is almost guaranteed to be someone camping every match. The window that can be climbed into from the outside - there is an opening to the left of it that is kind of like an alley that leads to the initial spawn area on that side of the map. I think there is a wheel barrow (barrel, whatever & wherever) right at that corner. Snipers tend to hide out there deep in that corner or LMG guys lay prone. It's easy to miss a player hiding there. That back little area where there is a huge rock has a dark space where players often hide, as well.

I can think of similar areas on other maps. You're right regarding Hijacked. On that map, player's do not blend in well but that map, overall, I consider an exception, not the rule. Nonetheless, lately there has been a tendency for players to camp the upper deck control room (toward the bow end of the ship). The darkness of that room is conducive to "camouflage."

There is another aspect, though, that I think has made a huge difference in this game and that is the way Ghost works. In the past I could use Ghost and cross large open areas feeling relatively comfortable that I would not be detected. The reason is because everyone would be looking down map where most of the action was and where most of the dots, whether green or red, were on the mini-maps. While flanking, I could thus cross those open areas and get to opponents much faster. Timing to do so was essential. You might have to pause and wait for the right moment.

You can't do that in BO2. Last night I used Ghost for the first time since completing the challenges for it. I tried something new: I never stopped moving, not even to reload, not to duck for cover, not even to call in ksr's. This worked. It worked for a single match. After that, the two top players on the other team realized what I was doing and the perk worked against the other four players, but against those two guys it was useless. They knew I had to keep moving so they double teamed and would place one guy where I would easily find him but I would have little to no choice but to engage him. While engaging him, I would get flanked by the other guy and walk away from the engagement with one kill and one death - and that does not win matches.

Ghost has radically changed the dynamics of the game. Frankly, I play better without it in BO2. Use the FHJ launcher with Scavenger and Fast Hands ... sometimes run the Black Hat, as well ... I can stay off the radar as much as I want. The problem is that the set up removes other valuable resources.

"At the end of the match, there remains only ... nuttin 2 say."
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Registered: ‎24-05-2011

yes ghost changes definitely affect the movement. I think I would prefer they return it to its more normal setup at this point. Against good players, it doesnt really help you at all. Only against less skilled players, or when players are actively occupied does it seem to help.

Also by the Body Blending Cover, im refering more to the ability to notice other players in grime or plants/foliage. Sometimes players at a distance could run by an area, and you aren't entirely sure if it was actually a person or just your camera. Sometimes you might check and it seems it was not, other times there was a person, very carefully moving or aiming in order to prevent being seen from a distance. Likewise there was foliage you could jump in, that prevent players from identifying you unless they were right on top of you, or you fired your gun. This is the sort of Blending Im talking about.

On the dark areas you speak...I remember having a little trouble at first. I just increased the lighting in game. It makes the dark black areas grey, and the player model stands out from the background. I never miss them anymore. Simple solution, but it helps I've found

Likes: 49
Posts: 191
Registered: ‎14-12-2012

for some reason the lag come seems to actually affect the movement speed in some funny way. 

i have noticed in some games i move faster then in others...this is using the exact same setup and without lightweight.

I have noticed other players moving so fast you would think they had lightweight on, but then when you see their killcam they don't.

when this game launched the movement speed felt like cod4 ish, now most games it feels like just everyone else is fast exept me. my speed still feels like it did at launch, but eveyone else feels faster.

in mw2 i had no problem shooting people that were moving fast with lightweight. 

more importantly no matter how fast someone else is moving I didn't get instadeath.  movement speed should not mean that when they shoot you, you die instantly before the required number of shots has even finished registering.  I think that is the single biggest and most frustrating thing for most people.   You watch the kill cam and the guy put the full 6 rounds into you, but what you experienced in realtime was just an instantanious death, like the moment they looked at you, you just dropped dead.   I don't care what anyone says, or how pro you think you are.. nobody is that fast.   it's easy for people who don't have the problem to pass it off as oh you are just slow and you suck... which only ads to the frustration more, but whatever it is, it's killing the game for a lot of people.

infact thinking about it, I can't help but wonder if maybe they have made it this way just to make the gameplay feel faster etc.  cod has always been fast IMO, but every year they seem to just want to make it fast. to the point it feels like they are almost trying to force you be play fast.  it's in everyone right down to the map design.  in cod4 you felt like you could play the game how you liked. some played it fast, some a bit slower and some really slow (camping) but now it's soooo fast that you either keep up or you camp as hard as you can... who knows.. anyway.  I have seen the changes to gameplay with the hotfixes and speed of movement somehow seems to be affected by it as well.

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Registered: ‎14-12-2012