14 Replies Latest reply on Jul 10, 2013 5:41 AM by phxs72 RSS

    The Perfect Solution to Knifing

      Anyone who has spent time trying to complete all their Combat Knife challenges will tell you that knifing in Black Ops II is the worst it's ever been. In an attempt to eliminate the issues people had with enemies lunging 5 feet or getting clean OHK with their knife on players who weren't even in the same area code, Call of Duty went a drastic route in tighting the hit detection of knives. While I don't disagree with the intent, I feel that there was a major feeling of "all or nothing" with the Dev team. It seems they felt that you either made knives near useless or they were going to be as lethal as a katana (a weapon that should be considered for Ghosts).


      To add some quick background, the combat knife should always be an equipable weapon and you do this by holding the Triangle (PS) or Y (XB). This is the only way you can knife unless you're using the Balistic Knife.


      Here's a brilliant solution to knifing to both nerf and buff some aspects:



      1) The lunge needs to be realistic, in Black Ops II there's about a 6inch reach your player has. This doesn't get the job done and leaves players slashing 3 or 4 times to get a hit. There needs to be some logic in their movements. If an enemy is lying down the player should have the ability to knife in a downward motion, if the enemy is off center the player should have the logic to lunge in that direction.


      2) When sprinting players should have a bit more of a lunge than when you're standing still. I think there's a bit of this in the current system but far too often when I'm hunting someone down I'm having to be right on their heels in order to land a hit.




      3) Animations can aleviate the anger players have in how pathethic some knife kills look despite being a OHK. With the Combat Knife you're given two possible attack; brutal and quick. Quick attacks are done by pressing R1 (PS) or the right trigger (XB). Brutal attacks are done by hold both L1 and R1 or the left and right trigger.


      4) Brutal attacks give you bonus towards your score. They take longer and leave a player valnurable during the attack, they look much more intense, and are quiet attacks. A brutal attack from behind will have you grab the enemy and stab them in the chest, carefully dropping them to the ground. From in front, a brutal attack is a two handed downward stab to the chest that instantly kills the target. From the side it's you grab your target, turn then aroud and stab them in the chest.


      5) Quick attacks are fast and are used when you need to take out multiple enemies. The disadvantage of it being quick is that you earn a standard amount of points and the stab is messy and loud showing you on radar. Quick attacks from behind are a throat slit that leaves the enemy moaning inaudiably, from the front is a abdomen stab, and the side is simply a side stab. Though they are still OHK, it's a little better than a whimsical slash that often doesn't show you hitting your target in the least.




      6) Unlike other titles there are ways to protect yourself from a knifer. First and formost if you're shooting a person they're movement speeds are reduced greatly and the knifer is not able to lunge nearly as far even when sprinting. This leaves a knife kill impossible unless you're enemy is right on top of you.


      7) If you're jumped by a knifer you can break away by clicking the right stick, much like killing a dog in Black Ops. However, the window isn't very big so you have to be fast. Also, all you're doing is breaking away, you're not inflicting damage.

        • Test #1
          Re: The Perfect Solution to Knifing

          If you have to switch to your knife there would be no point in using it, you'd just switch to your secondary.


          Here's a better solution, the combat knife cannot be used with primary weapons, but can only be used with secondary pistols (as a tac knife). So basically all pistols have a tac knife, and the tac knife is the only knife, and can only be used with pistols, not with primaries.


          So everyone has a tac knife with their secondary pistol, it's not an optional attachment, it's part of the weapon.

          Last Edited: Jul 6, 2013 9:47 AM
            • Test #1
              Re: The Perfect Solution to Knifing

              I have not played bo2 much, but I remember how terrible the knifing was in MW2 (it was similar to what you guys have described). I think your idea here is a very good one for any future COD title, but people without tactical knife should still be able to pull out their combat knife as OP says and use it in that way. What soldier would enter a battleground without a combat knife? To be honest, it would be great if we could even design stealth classes around knife takedowns and such...maybe be able to activate different takedowns based on distance and angle. Though I must add that you definitely should not be able to do this if you are getting shot in the process.

              Last Edited: Jul 6, 2013 7:09 AM
              • Test #1
                Re: The Perfect Solution to Knifing

                It's only complicated because you want it to be complicated. Holding down the switch button isn't that hard to do and it doesn't take that long

                Last Edited: Jul 6, 2013 7:10 AM
                  • Test #1
                    Re: The Perfect Solution to Knifing

                    Still quicker to switch to your secondary pistol (which in almost all cases is much better than a knife anyway).

                    Last Edited: Jul 6, 2013 9:44 AM
                    • Test #1
                      Re: The Perfect Solution to Knifing

                      im strongly agaenst the knife as a secondary, everything else is fine, bullets slowing down/decreasisng range of lunge will help, better animation(and your screen actualy moving with the animation) would also help. the take out your knife should not be a necessety, im fine if taking out a knife is in some way better than the normal knife(more lunge, faster animation, ect.) but other than that it should be fine. in BO2 i was more annoyed do to how knifing seems to be in real time while the rest of the game is in lagged up time, aka i have to knife were in front of someone to kill them instead of the character trailing behind his actual spot.

                      Last Edited: Jul 7, 2013 8:10 PM
                  • Test #1
                    Re: The Perfect Solution to Knifing

                    How about this instead.


                    Melee is a rifle butt to the face or a pistol whip that does 25 damage.


                    Double tap weapon switch to pull out a knife.


                    -A melee with the knife is a fast swipe with a little lunge that does 50 damage.


                    -Pressing the fire button near an enemy does an assassination animation that can be interrupted. One hit kill.


                    -Pressing aim and fire throws the knife.  100 damage.  You must pick up your knife before it may be used again. 


                    This would also allow for extra knives to be a lethal equipment. 

                    Last Edited: Jul 6, 2013 4:23 PM
                    • Test #1
                      Re: The Perfect Solution to Knifing

                      Honestly? Knifing was a stupid idea to begin with.


                      It was worst in MW2, obviously, and still bad in BO. I never saw knifers in MW1 or WaW, at least not outside of Gun Game.

                      I'm happy to see it go, at least go back to where it belongs. It shouldn't be an easy insta-kill. You'd need to aim with a pistol too, time your shots, watch your ammunition. Why should knifing be easier?

                      Last Edited: Jul 6, 2013 11:50 PM
                      • Test #1
                        Re: The Perfect Solution to Knifing

                        Knifing can be fixed if they're willing to admit the problems with it:


                        First and foremost, Panic Knifing. This is the one thing that just ruins it for for people. The idea that if you just tighten your grip on the controller a little bit, you'll get an easy/free kill from anyone within range. That needs to go. The adjustment that can be made is simple:


                        The Knife should only be a 1hko from behind. This whole 1hko from anywhere business is what helps cause the problem. By making it a 2hko from the front, and 1 from the back, it brings a little strategy into the game and doesn't kill the stealth aspect of the knife.


                        If that can't be implemented, then adjust it so that the amount of damage a knife does, is based upon how much health your character has at the time. In other words, if you have 100 Health, it does 100 damage. If you have < 50 Health, it does 50 Damage. This would mean that if someone shoots you, you won't be lunging through bullet after bullet for a free kill. You'll take your death and move on.


                        If either of these solutions were implemented, it would solve the problem completely IMO. You won't need to reduce the lunge because people can shoot you to reduce your knife damage, and you won't have to re-map the button because the knife can still be effective if you're in a situation in which you likely would have gotten the kill anyway had you used a gun. It's also probably the simplest of solutions to implement.

                        Last Edited: Jul 7, 2013 11:09 PM
                          • Test #1
                            Re: The Perfect Solution to Knifing

                            easist way to remove panic knifing is dont let the controler stick be the knife button on any setup.


                            best way without doing that is add intentinal lag(hover long it usualy takes to push B from teh stick with the same reaction time), (same with dropshotting) to start the animation/motion. it would make panic knifing at the same speed of normal knifing atleast, hate it when i was called a panic knifer when i used tactical.

                            Last Edited: Jul 9, 2013 9:51 PM
                          • Test #1
                            Re: The Perfect Solution to Knifing

                            I like your ideas on knifing.  The BO2 knife is so broken.  It's sad but when I go back to MW3 and get panic knived now I actually am happy to see a knife that actually works again.  If, however, they were to incorporate your ideas then they might actually accomplish maintaining the knife's usefulness while also cutting down on panic knifing.

                            Last Edited: Jul 10, 2013 5:41 AM