24 Replies Latest reply: Jul 21, 2013 5:14 PM by maccabi RSS

    So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?

      Read in an article where an IW dev said it's not really a new engine, just has some improvements, though Activision's video said there was a new next gen engine for Activision games.

       

      So I'm a bit confused.

        • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?

          what would you expect activision is cheap after all

          • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?
            ChestSplittah

            Because it takes time to create such a thing. It will be a new engine. It will have upgrades. Just like everything else that comes out new.

              • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?

                they used call of duty with virtually identical grpahics for an entire console generation now. Upping the resolution slightly isn't going to cut it much longer. When people think of a new gen of consoles and games, they want a graphical leap.

                 

                Gears of War from 2006 looked more "next gen" than what I've seen of this for the most part. Battlefield? Call of Duty cries in a puddle of its own piss when compared in the graphics department.

                 

                I will give them a break since this is a cross-gen game and launch title for the new systems. But they need to SERIOUSLY make a new engine or at least use a different one that isn't 10+ years old for the next COD.

              • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?
                WolfRidge

                Have you got a source for the article? I would be interested to read it.

                 

                Post a link if you can.

                • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?

                  LOL i knew it, same old crap different skin. When will they learn that the engine they use has had it, its full, you can ony mod it so much

                   

                  Oh you cant mod somethign and call it new, its modified not new.

                   

                  COD Ghosts "same **** different skin"

                   

                  Yep and you can bet ya balls Ghost will be to BO2 as BO2 is to MW2.

                   

                  It just gets worse and worse and worse.

                   

                  Have fun wasting money peoples.

                  • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?
                    robbierocket

                    I'm guessing the PS4 engine will be based on the engine used for all versions of the game but simply have enhancements to utilise some of the addition capabilities. Usually after 6-18 months of a new console release are we rewarded with bonafide "next gen" games that have been designed, developed and completed with that machine fully in mind.

                     

                    PS3 came out in late 2006 and 2007 was one of its biggest years in terms of fully realised classic games, GTAIV and CoD:MW, for example.

                    • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?
                      Steve2589

                      People get so tied up with a 'game engine' most people probably don't even know what that means. Some people think a new engine just means better graphics when it doesn't. A game engine actually contains a lot of functionality and as such takes years to build.

                       

                      It would be impossible for IW to build an entirely new modern engine AND build the game within 2 years. Go and watch the footage they released about Ghosts and you will see the graphical improvements, but for obvious reasons we haven't seen the other improvements yet.

                       

                      As long as the gameplay is good I'm not fussed the graphical improvements are good so far but I will be looking at other things as well such as networking

                      • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?
                        WhiskeyDex

                        Valve still uses the Source engine. Lots of developers still use the unreal engine. IW/Treyarch still use the ID engine.

                         

                        The improvment's that have been happening on PC for the last 6 years do not require a new engine. All these "old" engines have no problem maxing out today's CPUs when paired with a DX11 video card. All the advancements that have been happening are all GPU related. All Direct Express. FXAA - DX11, Tessellation - DX11, Multithreaded Rendering - DX11. Lots of other options i am forgetting as well. All of these things can be coded into an old engine. The engine will be absolutely nothing like when it was started.

                         

                        This is why you can play BF3 on an Xbox360 and have it look the way it does, while that same Frostbyte engine is taxing top end PCs producing a game that looks like BF3 on a top end PC.

                        • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?

                          The question is not: "Why didn't they make a new engine" ?

                           

                          The questions is how signifitically have they upgraded that engine,and the only way to find out is at E3.Graphics are not everything,of-course Gameplay is much more important.

                            • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?
                              WolfRidge

                              Exactly, the improvements make the engine new as it is different from the previous engine.  One thing I learnt recently was that the new engine would be for current gen and next gen.  I don't think the PS3 and PS4 versions will differ much, maybe the PS4 version will be a bit more polished.

                               

                              I'm still going to wait for the PS4 version, my PS3 is on its last legs.  I don't think we will see any Ghosts on the PS4 at E3 (xbox), but the PS4 reveal will be good all the same.

                            • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?
                              ghamorra

                              This engine is a major overhaul. Think of it like stripping a car down to only the fram of a body. All new performance parts, interior, and body kit. The fact is game engines are pretty set-in stone when it comes to most aspecs, regardless of how "new" it is there will always be components that are the same so why bother re-inventing the wheel when you can just severely modify what you already have. Don't be disappointed by this news, we've seen what NxtGen engines can do and it looks awesome

                                • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?

                                  Your analogy is specious Ghamora.  I've spent a fair amount of time working on cars so I know a little about it.  When you rebuild a car you use either OEM parts or aftermarket parts specifically built to work in your car.  Here's a better analogy:  Imagine a truck, a work vehicle if you will.  You don't have the money to buy new parts (or maybe its so old there are no new parts available and you can't afford to get them made) so you're putting whatever you can find on the truck.  Lets say you have a Ford (no this is not an analogy to the quality of the computer engine)  You're grabbing used parts off of Chevys, Toyotas, Mitsubishis, Hondas, and Kias (these makes were grabbed at random).  Basically whatever is close enough to keep your truck going.  None of these parts are OEM and few if any actually work within spec, so the truck starts running worse.  Then on top of this you start increasing the size of the load its carrying (usually this is improved graphics).  How well does your truck run?  How long before you need more second hand parts?

                                  This still doesn't quite cover the problem with using old engines and upgrading but it comes much closer.  Before I go any further I would like to admit that my programming knowledge is limited and I have made mistakes (notable about the need for lag comp; a simple mistake in standards) when it comes to programming.  I do however talk to programmers and have a basic knowledge.  Here's the actual problem as I understand it.  Coding is complex.  When you build an engine it is as streamlined as possible.  You may have one subroutine that can be called by many different subroutines.  As you 'upgrade' you realize that particular subroutine isn't quite what you need two out of four times anymore so you make another.  Now it's almost impossible on first go to get all the pointers or calls to the old subroutine removed so the new one can work.  Coding is complex.  Maybe you simple but an if/then in the original routine to determine whether it should use that or the new one.  If its not the old routine calls the new routine.  Now i have extra calls and processes to do what the engine already did before.  This by itself isn't a big deal, the runtime issue is minor.  Untill you consider that over time you've created hundreds of extra calls.  Then the program starts glitching, and lagging as it tries to keep up.  Your truck is just doing worse and worse.  Remember coding is complex.                                                                                                                                                                                                          Now we have a game developer that is actively LYING to us about having a new engine.  No it is not a new engine.  A new car is NEW.  It is not a car with mostly new parts thats been driven for eight years.  They use the excuse that they couldn't make a new engine in two years which I completely buy btw.  The fact that they manage to get a new game out in two years is impressive to me.  But this DOES NOT excuse not making a new engine.  The bottom line is they figure you'll buy whatever crap they make so why bother going to the effort.  It's not worth getting into the engine building market.  Activision, Infinity Ward, or Treyarch could very easily open an engine building department.  They may only put out a new engine once every five or six years but we would still get updated functionality.  As it is they have been using an engine that is at least eight years old and probably older.  The funny thing is if they were to make an engine building department they could almost certainly recoup the losses for development by selling the newest engine to other companies.  And be able to put out superior games.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Now we have a game that is NOT using a new engine (however much they may claim it) but is running distinctively better graphics.  We've seen the trend for same engine better graphics = more lag in the last three games and I see nothing to suggest this will change.  Due to what I've read here I will be moving my preorder of Ghosts onto something else.  I probably won't even buy the PS4 when it first comes out now (the only reason I would have was to play Ghosts).  I'm not going to say Ghosts WILL be worse than previous COD titles (The deity who's existence I doubt knows I've been wrong before).  I may even pick it up eventually, but it will be after I've had a chance to play it at a friends house and judge it without throwing sixty five and change away on it.                                                                                                                                                           P.S.  Feel free to flame me all you want, as I doubt I'll be coming back to these forums

                                • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?

                                  Look at BF4 engine Frostbite 3! It blows COD engine out of the water!

                                   

                                  DICE and EA are doing it right...why cant IW/Activsion do the same? Using an old engine and tweaking it...Lame IW very LAME!

                                   

                                  Very misleading saying that its a new engine for next gen consoles...it aint..it just same old an optimized to run better...

                                   

                                  I guess the shareholders dont want more money

                                  • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?
                                    IndyOldGuy

                                    juannadie wrote:

                                     

                                    Read in an article where an IW dev said it's not really a new engine, just has some improvements, though Activision's video said there was a new next gen engine for Activision games.

                                     

                                    So I'm a bit confused.

                                    see here
                                    http://youtu.be/OBlNCrYBdoQ

                                    • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?

                                        it would take 200 enginers to build a new engine thats a lot of money to spend on labor and parts. plus it would take to long.

                                      • Re: So why no a really new engine for the next gen consoles?
                                        iivrruummii

                                        It is a new engine, in the instance that Frostbite 3 is a new engine compared Frostbite 2.