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      • 40. Re: Yet another lag post. Current Discussions
        deamonomic

        Nubdub wrote:

         

        I agree with you, theater will never sync with the live action because it is the server game state at 0 ping. Other players won't line up because they do not have 0 ping to the game server. Host player would line up perfectly if the host players game state was not adjusted to balance the game. Theater is the game state recorded at 0 ping. To balance the host player so he is not ahead of everyone a calculation is made based on the ping of all players. The average of this number is added to the host players game state. What this video shows is how many ms I was behind the player that appeared on the 0 lag game state camera.      It is true though, you can not use theater to determine who fired first because of their relationship to server game state.

        I think your looking at it the wrong way. its not a recording at all. atleast not in the video sense. it saves the important information and then later uses that recorded information to ATTEMPT to recreate it. the things is leaves out nubdub are the reason for what you saw.

        • 41. Re: Yet another lag post. Current Discussions

          I disagree. But, I will give you this...........If you live close to a highly populated area and/or play with a group of players from your area, you are less likely to see the effect of host player game state being as far behind 0 lag game state. Reason being, you will more often be placed in games with people with low pings. If a calculation is done to determine host game state based on already low pings, the effect would be much less on the host player game state being behind others. If on the other hand you are in a less populated area and the game needs to look a long way to find players, odds are your experience as host player will be much worse because ping averages will be higher. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. (I think somewhere out there in internetland I remember reading something about Robert Bowling discussing this ping average being added to host player)

          • 42. Re: Yet another lag post. Current Discussions
            Run_N_Gunning_Camper

            Here is the tweet you are talking about.

             

            http://imageshack.us/a/img28/7074/twittw.png

            • 43. Re: Yet another lag post. Current Discussions
              deamonomic

              Nubdub wrote:

               

              I disagree. But, I will give you this...........If you live close to a highly populated area and/or play with a group of players from your area, you are less likely to see the effect of host player game state being as far behind 0 lag game state. Reason being, you will more often be placed in games with people with low pings. If a calculation is done to determine host game state based on already low pings, the effect would be much less on the host player game state being behind others. If on the other hand you are in a less populated area and the game needs to look a long way to find players, odds are your experience as host player will be much worse because ping averages will be higher. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. (I think somewhere out there in internetland I remember reading something about Robert Bowling discussing this ping average being added to host player)

              I live in the desert. the closest friend that I play with is several states away. you think my replays are less messed up? cause they are not.

               

              a calculation that does what exactly? and how does it do it? have you come up with this calculation? how will this calculation lessen the stress on the host being behind others.

               

              I have already said it once prove that there is a delay and then go into the rest of it.

              • 44. Re: Yet another lag post. Current Discussions

                Thanks!

                 

                I'm not trying to make you look bad deamonic or telling you your beliefs are wrong, I am just trying to show you my point of view. I did read your post about "the illusion of lag" and agree in some cases that is true. I also believe you don't see the problems I do because you live closer to a higher populated area.

                • 45. Re: Yet another lag post. Current Discussions

                  I just proved it to the best of my ability. It hinges on believing that theater is server game state at 0 lag. I know you quoted mac as saying that is not true but I do remember reading something earlier today that mac put together saying theater is a recording of server game state at 0 ping or something along those lines. He will also say it can't be used as forensic evidence (I think the devs said this too). I agree with that also. For the sole reason being, bullets not lining up when comparing zero lag game state with another players pvr recording. It would only line up if the player had 0 lag and no adjustments in game state made.

                   

                  Added

                  Here is the exact quote from maccabi "you would actually have a much closer view of the master game state if you just only recorded the theatre footage from each players point of view, as that would be closer to the raw data. The only problem there is though then you lose the very thing you wanted to show as that would be a video showing events that didnt happen exactly the same on anyones screen."

                  • 46. Re: Yet another lag post. Current Discussions
                    deamonomic

                    its the end result of the game yes in a certain respect it is. but only in the sense that the core events are the same. I shot you at this point your character was here and mine was rought here here aim was aprox here and so on. its not even a 100% accurate system.

                     

                    I think when the game sets to recreating these things in theater it essentially pulls up a list of values or whatever you want to call it XD from that game and uses that to organise a replay. it uses these points to set up an aprox recreating of the game you played. heres the thing. I think what ends up happening is the game doesnt save everything exactly. what I mean is it saves certain points and not others. therefore what ends up happening when it tries to recreat it is basically fill in the lost moments with default animations. things like missed bullets are lower proirity to be recorded accuretly because well... they missed who the hell cares? thats why when you were playing live you fired 4-5 bullets before dropping and they vanish. your dead so your bullets mean nothing. (inreality its BRT at work) a miss is a miss. so it doesnt show that in the kill cam or recordings, I think this is a design feature not flaw. I think its meant to make a player look more badass. I think it should stay as his gun firing wildly as he dies XD that would be awesome.

                     

                     

                    OH and one more thing jackie.... XD that theater clip is invalid as proof not only because its theater but because a player was leaving the game at that specific moment. even if it is lag, thats the reason why its lagging like that). blame rage quiters like I do.

                    • 47. Re: Yet another lag post. Current Discussions

                      deamonomic wrote:

                       

                      its the end result of the game yes in a certain respect it is. but only in the sense that the core events are the same. I shot you at this point your character was here and mine was rought here here aim was aprox here and so on. its not even a 100% accurate system.

                       

                      I think when the game sets to recreating these things in theater it essentially pulls up a list of values or whatever you want to call it XD from that game and uses that to organise a replay. it uses these points to set up an aprox recreating of the game you played. heres the thing. I think what ends up happening is the game doesnt save everything exactly. what I mean is it saves certain points and not others. therefore what ends up happening when it tries to recreat it is basically fill in the lost moments with default animations. things like missed bullets are lower proirity to be recorded accuretly because well... they missed who the hell cares? thats why when you were playing live you fired 4-5 bullets before dropping and they vanish. your dead so your bullets mean nothing. (inreality its BRT at work) a miss is a miss. so it doesnt show that in the kill cam or recordings, I think this is a design feature not flaw. I think its meant to make a player look more badass. I think it should stay as his gun firing wildly as he dies XD that would be awesome.

                       

                       

                      OH and one more thing jackie.... XD that theater clip is invalid as proof not only because its theater but because a player was leaving the game at that specific moment. even if it is lag, thats the reason why its lagging like that). blame rage quiters like I do.

                       

                      Everyting that happens in the game is code. The master code is the servers point of view. What is recorded in theatre is the servers point of view exactly. The code does not get changed before it is realeased to theater. It is the exact same code that was being run during live game play. Host player has a zero ping to the server, if the host players live recording does not match the servers recording, it is because his game state has been adjusted from the master server game state.

                      • 48. Re: Yet another lag post. Current Discussions

                         

                         

                         

                        a calculation that does what exactly? and how does it do it? have you come up with this calculation? how will this calculation lessen the stress on the host being behind others.

                         

                         

                         

                        A calculation that considers all pings in the lobby and creates an average. This average is then applied to the host players game state in an attempt to balance the game (removes host advantage). I do not at all have an issue with taking away host advanatage. My issue with it is, it actually creates a disadvantage for the host. Best case scenario, host will get BS moments 50% of the time because half the lobby will have a game state closer to the master game state. Worst case scenario, a player will ping spike/bottleneck/3g to 1000ms (example) ping at the time the calculation is made and end up creating an average that will put the host player at the farthest point from the master game state than anyone else in the lobby.

                         

                        My suggestion to alleviate this, which should not at all effect your ability to play the game, is to remove the worst 2 pings from the calculation so the average is less likely to be skewed by ultra high ping players.

                        • 49. Re: Yet another lag post. Current Discussions
                          deamonomic

                           

                          Nubdub wrote:

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          a calculation that does what exactly? and how does it do it? have you come up with this calculation? how will this calculation lessen the stress on the host being behind others.

                           

                           

                           

                          A calculation that considers all pings in the lobby and creates an average. This average is then applied to the host players game state in an attempt to balance the game (removes host advantage). I do not at all have an issue with taking away host advanatage. My issue with it is, it actually creates a disadvantage for the host. Best case scenario, host will get BS moments 50% of the time because half the lobby will have a game state closer to the master game state. Worst case scenario, a player will ping spike/bottleneck/3g to 1000ms (example) ping at the time the calculation is made and end up creating an average that will put the host player at the farthest point from the master game state than anyone else in the lobby.

                           

                          My suggestion to alleviate this, which should not at all effect your ability to play the game, is to remove the worst 2 pings from the calculation so the average is less likely to be skewed by ultra high ping players.

                          alright next question, what leads you to believe there is a host disadvantage to begin with? (I keep trying to tell you nub you cant avoid that cursed video. it is the greatest chance to win you have). OH please answer in detail

                           

                          and a response of "cause I know it" is not an acceptable response (that is a dismissive and evasive response) what makes you convinced you are right? I mean I am convinced I am right because I have spent many hours closely studing my own and dozens of others players live gameplays. and I continue to see the very things I talk about happening in every instance. you proved that in the last thread nubdub.  you have to atleast see that much. and whats more I continue to not see any of the horrible problems you guys claim.

                           

                          AND if you want an explenation for that theater clip heres one. the reason it was so off was because of a lag spike caused by a rage quiter unpluging their system. on your screen (live) he froze during this spike, in theater he didnt freeze but continued to to move him along the way.  infact he might have been that very player who was disconnecting. you could confirm that by checking theater actually.

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