41 Replies Latest reply: Mar 23, 2013 12:21 PM by Mat2202 RSS

    fast connection and lag? here is a fix

      If you have very good Internet and you experience lag lag lag - its not the game....

       

      look here

       

      http://community.callofduty.com/message/414232014#414232014

        • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
          maccabi

          great post one small problem it only works if the players communicate with each other they dont so what you just wrote in that other post you linked too is utterly wrong

            • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

              why do you think it´s wrong? The paper is from microsoft and on my Router I can see that I co host sessions with an open NAT- Ok I don´t play BO II but on MW3 it is for sure. This is the way xbox live works. Try to play with a moderate NAT and then you will see it.

                • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                  Maccabi is a very well respected IT type dude. Posts like this basically are insulting him, search for his Elagaphant posts and you will see how wrong you are. also if ypu want technical aspects of the game go to denkirson.proboards, those guys and girls break down the real scientific knowledge behimd these games through testing and the games fast files. go to the Hey,Den for technical stuff amd Hey, Guy for less tech stuff. a member named Mousy posted and excellent thread on lag, latency, and hit detection over there the other day. Marvel4 and a few others get the weapon, perks,attachment, and recoil stats down to a very scientific and technical level, i have found it the most useful page out there. there is no whining amd nonsense that goes on here over there. alot of youtubers use their info for their channels. drif0r is one

                    • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                      sorry I don´t want to insult anyone. English is not my first language  - so don´t get me wrong. I only described what I see on my Router and what I can see on the microsoft paper.

                       

                      This makes sense to me. If I have moderate NAT - my Host is never used to bridge connections of others. All things run much better.

                    • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
                      Foxhound-Pro

                      Mat2202 wrote:

                       

                      why do you think it´s wrong? The paper is from microsoft and on my Router I can see that I co host sessions with an open NAT- Ok I don´t play BO II but on MW3 it is for sure. This is the way xbox live works. Try to play with a moderate NAT and then you will see it.

                      Because what you explained is similar to a peer-to-peer topology. Call of Duty utilizes listen servers which are similar to client-server topologies.

                       

                      When player 8 shoots player 5 it is routed to the host and then routed to all players. The only game to use traditional p2p was COD3.

                      • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                        my router sometimes bounces me between moderate and open. Not sure why. The only thing I notice when its on moderate is that it takes a bit longer to find games, however, the gameplay is exactly the same when its open.

                          • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
                            Foxhound-Pro

                            xmrythem wrote:

                             

                            my router sometimes bounces me between moderate and open. Not sure why. The only thing I notice when its on moderate is that it takes a bit longer to find games, however, the gameplay is exactly the same when its open.

                             

                            Could be a number of reasons.

                             

                            The game could be displaying your status incorrectly.

                             

                            You could have UPnP enabled and it isn't setting properly.

                             

                            You decided to tinker with some settings and didn't set them correctly.

                             

                            Message was edited by: Foxhound-Pro - Adding the quote since reading who I replied to is hard, but jumping to conclusions isn't.

                              • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                so your insinuating that he made a settings error when setting up his wifi yet i and several others are experiencing the same issue with lag on greater than T3 internet connections guess everyone must have set their wifi/Internet up wrong huh?

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                i believe its a coding error done in the netcode of the games script thats to blame a "Bottleneck" if you will i know alot about this type of problem companies overlook it all the time !!

                                 

                                @ Foxhound instead of trying to beat around the bush come out and say its "just the way the games programed/scripted" cause thats the most obvious case involving lag even with high class internet connections!!

                                  • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
                                    Foxhound-Pro

                                    STR8RIPPN wrote:

                                     

                                    so your insinuating that he made a settings error when setting up his wifi yet i and several others are experiencing the same issue with lag on greater than T3 internet connections guess everyone must have set their wifi/Internet up wrong huh?

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    i believe its a coding error done in the netcode of the games script thats to blame a "Bottleneck" if you will i know alot about this type of problem companies overlook it all the time !!

                                     

                                    @ Foxhound instead of trying to beat around the bush come out and say its "just the way the games programed/scripted" cause thats the most obvious case involving lag even with high class internet connections!!

                                    You've taken my reply out of context. It is in regards to someone asking about why they bounce back between Moderate and Open NATs.

                                     

                                    As for your bit about me stating what you want to hear: No. First and foremost, I'm not a developer so I am not going to speak for someone else's work. Lastly there is a lot of grey that happens regarding Internet connections. Some people are going to have great games and some will not. There's a lot that can cause a bad session. A lot of which people simply ignore. So no, even on principle I could not turn to an absolute.

                                     

                                    In the future please review the context of my statement. I'll also be sure to quote people entirely now since reading and looking can be hard for some.

                                • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                  I had a similar problem. I called my ISP and this is what was going on:

                                  Modem was power cycling( sometimes 5 times a morning). Kept getting kicked from games and could not download DLC.

                                  I had static ip and all the other good tech advice from the helpful people from this forum set up.

                                  So when it cycled it was swapping ip addresses to a different one and creating a conflict with other devices.

                                  For some weird reason it was assigning two IP's to the Xbox, for wireless and wired each time creating another conflict. This was not a system link wifi connection like I thought at first.

                                  My router/ modem was only 1 year old, but they sent me a new one and these problems have gone away. ( they sent me the exact same router and put in the same settings, except I did not enable UPnP as Foxhound stated as well. It is probably unlikely that this is your problem , but perhaps if it can help someone out there it was time well spent.

                                   

                                  PS. I have worked in the oil fields, been a timber cutter, a firefighter, and a heavy equipment operator. I am a good carpenter, an even better mechanic, and have stomped around this world putting boot-to-butt for my country, but those of you who can figure out this internet crap and what goes on in binary code land have my complete respect. So please don't presume that my suggestions come from an I know it all attitude, but from my experience that when the truck won't work, check the fuse box first.

                                • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                  Maccabi wrote the sourcecode for Quake and the CoD Netcode, he knows everything.

                                • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
                                  xxxharveystjockxxx

                                  you know what doesnt seem to work now most of the time?  the instructions from elagaphant.  i know your right in what you posted there.  respect, But a straight forward as it should be in a perfect world connection doesnt work apparently for lot of people. Atleast this person is trying to post something that will change things and cause change and I give him props.  At this point who knows what will work and what wont.  I thank the OP regardless for trying to bring about some change!

                                    • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
                                      Foxhound-Pro

                                      xxxharveystjockxxx wrote:

                                       

                                      you know what doesnt seem to work now most of the time?  the instructions from elagaphant.  i know your right in what you posted there.  respect, But a straight forward as it should be in a perfect world connection doesnt work apparently for lot of people. Atleast this person is trying to post something that will change things and cause change and I give him props.  At this point who knows what will work and what wont.  I thank the OP regardless for trying to bring about some change!

                                       

                                      Even if you do everything that the elagaphant states, you are still prone to getting bad matches due to external and internal issues.

                                       

                                      What this user is stating is factually incorrect due to how the game operates. I agree that we should give props for them at least trying, but we can't afford to allow even more incorrect information on a subject that is shrouded in bad information.

                                  • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
                                    malditor

                                    There is no fix anyone can do to get rid of the lag. Some people can have everything set right, even so far as putting their xbox directly connected to the modem, and still have horrible connection issues. I've had open nat time the entire time I've played with a few exceptions when for some reason xbox live decides it's not and I have to re-run connection test. Regardless of my nat type the game was very hard to play due to serious lag issues until more recent patches. Until the dial in their matchmaking and netcode things will still be bad for people. Even after that not everyone will have their issues fixed.

                                    • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
                                      codchamp

                                      I go between open and moderate nat all the time. I have tried multiple different settings over the last couple of years and i never see a difference. I have been having these lag issues since Black ops 1 came out. MW3 played fine for me and i see the same lag problems with Blops 2. It really is not a bother for me anymore as i have adjusted my play style to compensate for the lag.

                                      • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                        Mat2202 wrote:

                                         

                                        If you have very good Internet and you experience lag lag lag - its not the game....

                                         

                                        look here

                                         

                                        http://community.callofduty.com/message/414232014#414232014

                                         

                                        The original link is broken that leads to the Powerpoint presentation. This one works.

                                         

                                        http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=7288

                                        • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                          So the OP is suggesting to force your NAT to moderate, but then you can only play with friends who are Open? So THEY will lag, not you? How about you just get your party to fix their NAT's everyone runs open then you won't have to bridge anything. I mean, I guess if your running solo, moderate would be best for you?

                                          • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                            This post explains a lot to me. I have a very good, stable, low ping, high bandwidth connection. When I view the number of IP's I am connected to during a game, usually around 40 or more IP addresses flowing through. When the game is over, that number drops to around 5 IP addresses (all connections to activision servers, xbox live, matchmaking and demonware). I get the feeling my connection is being used as a portal for all players with strict/moderate NAT settings. It also seems to not release the IP's of people that come and go from a match until about 30 seconds after the match is over.

                                             

                                            Most likely why Treyarch is pushing people to correct their NAT settings so the burden is leveled between players. In the current environment, people with the most open, stable, high bandwidth connections are being burdened with the weight of serving other connections and overworking the xbox's limited CPU and RAM capabilities. This I believe is what may be causing the bad experience for people with good connections.

                                             

                                            The date of the powerpoint presentation and conference are significant too. Right before the release of Black OPs 1. The problems most of us are having started with the release of BO 1.

                                             

                                            Macc, the powerpoint mentions peer to peer but only in the instance of xbox live chat. The subject is also relevant to listen servers.

                                              • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                                Has changing to Moderate NAT help things for you then??

                                                 

                                                I havn't enjoyed this game since I upgraded my connection from DSL to Fibre Optic...

                                                • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                                  If you are host then yes you are the portal for the other players. Listen servers work similar to Dedi servers. In the sense that the host is well hosting all players in the lobby the same as a dedicated server would.

                                                  • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
                                                    Foxhound-Pro

                                                    Nubdub wrote:

                                                     

                                                    This post explains a lot to me. I have a very good, stable, low ping, high bandwidth connection. When I view the number of IP's I am connected to during a game, usually around 40 or more IP addresses flowing through. When the game is over, that number drops to around 5 IP addresses (all connections to activision servers, xbox live, matchmaking and demonware). I get the feeling my connection is being used as a portal for all players with strict/moderate NAT settings. It also seems to not release the IP's of people that come and go from a match until about 30 seconds after the match is over.

                                                     

                                                    Most likely why Treyarch is pushing people to correct their NAT settings so the burden is leveled between players. In the current environment, people with the most open, stable, high bandwidth connections are being burdened with the weight of serving other connections and overworking the xbox's limited CPU and RAM capabilities. This I believe is what may be causing the bad experience for people with good connections.

                                                     

                                                    The date of the powerpoint presentation and conference are significant too. Right before the release of Black OPs 1. The problems most of us are having started with the release of BO 1.

                                                     

                                                    Macc, the powerpoint mentions peer to peer but only in the instance of xbox live chat. The subject is also relevant to listen servers.

                                                    No. The game uses listen servers, not a peer to peer network.

                                                      • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                                        watch your connections in your router (if you can ) it will tell you !

                                                         

                                                        Like I understood the listen Server should be the Host and ALL connect to him. But like I said - maybe something is wrong. I ALWAYS connect to all others. I´m not sure if this is because of xbox live matchmaking (peer to peer?) or if the developers of BO2 have written their own matchmaking code?

                                                         

                                                        With moderate NAT I have only half the connections.

                                                      • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                                        This is what I see on my Router - i have so many connections it´s unbelievable - and it is because of strict nat´s can´t connect to moderate nat´s. So someone have to bridge their connection. And this can only be a open nat. So if your Bandwith is high (upload) you are chosen.

                                                         

                                                        And this is also if you are NOT host in the game - you co host with your very fast connection.

                                                         

                                                        This is also the reason why to lower upload bandwith help sometimes. Because the game choose another open nat for bridging.

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        If I have moderate NAT then I see only MY connections !

                                                      • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
                                                        Bielsalmighty

                                                        If I cant get my NAT set to open, I dont bother playing as my experiences with moderate NAT have been tooth-grindingly bad. I have fast, clean fibre optic and my game plays just fine.

                                                         

                                                        However, I'm not saying what is posted is necessarily wrong. There may be some crazy way that it will actually work for some. Good luck to those who try it.

                                                        • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix
                                                          jahMoon

                                                          Ok, so we know this is bad information.  What is good information?

                                                           

                                                          Reminds me of IPT meetings with the net guys talking in thier own language when you are trying to put software into production.  No solutions, just babble. 

                                                           

                                                          The only thing I learned is maccabi is the guy who wrote netcode for Q3 rocket area...maybe it wasn't confirmed.

                                                           

                                                          I liked that netcode, when you had a bad connection you couldn't play.  First, you where asked to quit, if you didn't you got kicked from the server.   

                                                           

                                                          I see the problem with playing with parties and we have all have to play with the pary leader's lowest common denominator.  Everyone suffers because of the one player with the crappy connection was brought there by the party leader. 

                                                          • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                                            @maccabi

                                                             

                                                            Sorry I don´t want to insult you - english is not my first language and I only described what I see on my Router. And it´s sure if I have an open NAT my connection gets used as co host.

                                                             

                                                            I really want to learn some things.

                                                            can you please explain me why I see so many connections on my Router with open NAT?

                                                            With moderate NAT I only see connections from my Router to xbox live servers other players ans so on.

                                                             

                                                            I never see other connections.

                                                             

                                                            Why do I see things like:

                                                             

                                                            Public IP connect to public IP (both not mine) over port 3074? An this even if I´m not host?

                                                             

                                                            or more often.

                                                             

                                                            public IP (not mine) on port 3078 connect to MY public IP on port 3074


                                                             


                                                             

                                                             


                                                            • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                                              Ok now I had an open NAT and I count my connections.

                                                               

                                                              I had 107 (!!!) connections in all directions only for my xbox.

                                                               

                                                              With moderate NAT I only have the connections me to all others. The game feeling is so much better.

                                                               

                                                              Is it possible that the timeout of the connections is wrong. 107 can´t be for 1 game I think

                                                              • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                                                The co-host theory seems correct. Many less IP's showing in my router during a game with NAT set to moderate. Seems the main host is being used as listen server and secondary host being used to route players to the host who cannot connect directly to host? Not sure.

                                                                • Re: fast connection and lag? here is a fix

                                                                  I checked other games like gears of war judgement too - they say they have dedicared servers? In the USA maybe but not for me. With open NAT the same connections like in COD. You shoot on people they don´t die. Maybe it´s a thing of xbox live? I don´t know.