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        40. Re: COD's biggest problem... the emphasis of score/kill streaks.

        To those arguing that BO2 sales are down because kill streaks are harder to acquire ...


        I disagree. There are other factors not at all even mentioned (I admit I made it a little half way through the thread before I had enough).


        To begin with, there are basic laws of economics at play. I'm not going to get into all the details of how Econ 101 plays into this other than to say this, look at WHO ATVI is marketing the game to. This is no longer a "kids" game. I don't care if you see children (or rather, hear them) playing the game. This game is marketed not just to adults, but to adults aged 25 and older. In fact, I would say the emphasis is shifting toward adults aged 30+. Frankly, all industries want to sell primarily to the 30 to 50 or so demographic becase, everyone at the same time "That's where the cash cow is!"


        The gaming market for children, the under 18 crowd, is saturated. They are not going to gain any more sales there. Period. Ages 18 to 30 do not have the disposable income that the 30+ crowd has.


        That is the most likely reason you see the sales figures you see in the charts that were provided in the second post to this thread.


        Nonetheless, what I have posted so far as well as what was claimed in the second post are CORRELATIONS and nothing more. You cannot conclude "causation." And certainly the leap to the conclusion that kill/score streaks are causing a decline in growth rates is a logical fallacy.


        The next factor I haven't seen discussed is the repeat customer. The community calls the repeat customer the "core COD community." The reality is that the "core COD community" increases each year. There are more new fans than there are disenchanted and falling away fans. At some point the number of new customers is going to flat-line. There is no known way around that fact of life. ATVI has attempted to get around the law of diminishing return by offering a new product every year, but the graphics have not changed significantly in six years, the basic format of the game has not changed (it is still an FPS at its core requiring players to score kills against other players); all that ATVI has done has added more bells and whistles.


        In any case, the point here is the repeat customer. After playing the game for 4, 5, 6 years, players increasingly get better at the game. I remember back in COD4 how easy it was to flank snipers so that I could literally walk up to three or four of them in a row and "execute" them with a single pistol round to the back of the head. My wife would roll in hysterics laughing as she would watch me do this.


        You're not likely to catch three or four people all in a row and sniping in BO2. Why is that? Because people have learned how to play the game and play it with much more alertness than they did back then.


        How that applies to kill/score streaks should be obvious. Back in COD4, getting 7 kills without getting killed was nowhere near as common as it is today. In fact, most players back then could not put together the three kills needed for a UAV.


        So there has been a legitimate need to place the more rewarding kill/score streaks at higher and higher levels ... because the repeat customers are finding it easier and easier to go longer without getting killed.


        This is where the problem emerges. Newer players assume it should be easy to score those high end streaks. They want the glory of acquiring those streaks. And there are three ways to achieve them.


        1 - you can get together with a party and develop a strategy so that one or two players in the party earn those streaks and swap positions from match to match


        2 - You can boost/cheat to acquire those streaks


        3 - you can earn them with skill the way us long time, repeat customers prefer


        If ATVI was to go back to the 3 5 7 formula, long time players would score five kills, four if they run Hardline, and then sit in a corner and let the streaks do the rest of the work for them. That's just the reality of life.


        I think part of the issue is that since MW2, once you get to 7 or so kills, you unlock kill/score streaks that all but guarantee enough kills to earn a 12 or 13 kill reward, and then that one will almost as certainly earn another 7 to 10 kills ... not to mention the fact that the system recycles.


        That may be the most significant factor in why people are not playing the objectives, but I'm not certain I would appreciate seeing it work differently.

        Last Edited: Feb 27, 2013 9:45 AM
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          41. Re: COD's biggest problem... the emphasis of score/kill streaks.

          its not scorestreaks but activisions desire to make money by aiming cod at kids as thats were the dollars are. treyarch were anti quick scope but its in, they wre anti powerful secondry but pistols beat primarys. constant uavs as the kids need dots to find and not map knowledge.

          Last Edited: Feb 27, 2013 9:54 AM
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            42. Re: COD's biggest problem... the emphasis of score/kill streaks.

            What if, in objective games only, for every five caps you earned a huge bonus, say 500 points.


            In other words, you get like 100 points for capping ... times five caps ... that's 500 points ... but at five caps, you get an additional 500 points?


            Defends, I'm not so sure. Defends seem pretty easy to get in this game. But maybe so.


            Same with tags in KC.


            As for TDM, you could do something similar. At 10 kills you get a bonus atop the kills you've already scored. And I mean uninterrupted kills, not 5 kills, die, 5 kills. I mean 10 kills and you are still alive.

            Last Edited: Feb 27, 2013 10:01 AM
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              43. Re: COD's biggest problem... the emphasis of score/kill streaks.

              The money is not in the kids. Trust me. Kids have to beg mom and dad to buy them the game ... and then the DLC, etc, etc.


              Adults are decision makers. They can decide at will whether or not to buy the game or DLC. They don't have to go get their parents' credit cards.


              The reason secondaries are more powerful now is because people have not been using them since MW2. They had to either make the secondaries useable or take them out of the game.


              Constant UAVs, I've come to realize, are a little more complicated than dot chasers. Okay, so I've gotten well enough at the game I can get fairly frequently earn any streak up to the dogs. After that, I'm not that good yet.


              The problem is that it takes only one match for me to do that and the other team will reset all their streaks to the low end streaks. They can't handle being outplayed via flanking and reaction time. So they counter it by using UAV spam.


              My only option at that point is to do the same.


              I think a lot of players are having that same problem.

              Last Edited: Feb 27, 2013 10:18 AM
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                44. Re: COD's biggest problem... the emphasis of score/kill streaks.

                I imagine the FPS genre has also become more competitive for sales since COD4 too.  I was never really into shooters when COD4 came out but in recent years there appears to be some shooter being released every two or three months.

                Last Edited: Feb 27, 2013 10:37 AM
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                  45. Re: COD's biggest problem... the emphasis of score/kill streaks.

                  Nope Hardhat was up near the top. I was and dont know if i still am #1 in support. Have not checked in awhile. #2 was a booster named satans feast. My GT is Hard2kill ny

                  Last Edited: Feb 27, 2013 10:57 AM
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                    46. Re: COD's biggest problem... the emphasis of score/kill streaks.

                    They should just reduce the emphasis but not completely remove scorestreaks or revert back to 3-5-7.


                    For example, in objective based games just remove the stat tracking and stacking ability for kill based streaks. So if you earned a VTOL, the kills you achieved for the VTOL don't contribute to your game kills, your career KD and you don't get points for kills so you can't achieve a swarm from it. For support streaks you would still get assist points and stacking though.


                    Only kills using your personal weapon count towards K/D and ALL score streaks will be truly earned.

                    Last Edited: Feb 27, 2013 1:50 PM
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                      47. Re: COD's biggest problem... the emphasis of score/kill streaks.

                      Also greatly reduce points for non-objective kills and increase points for objective based actions and kills.

                      Last Edited: Feb 27, 2013 1:52 PM
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                        48. Re: COD's biggest problem... the emphasis of score/kill streaks.

                        Actually, the worst it can possibly get is two Dragonfires, two AGRs, a Warthog, a VTOL Warship, a Lodestar, a K9 Unit, and a drone swarm. Me, my brother, my sister, and a friend of mine actually managed to call all that in at once one time--it was hilarious how many kills it managed. xD


                        And on your second point, I disagree. I don't find myself adjusting my gameplay in comparison to previous games to accommodate the impact of streak bonuses on the gameplay. The only major difference is a few seconds out of each match to blow a UAV or something else out of the sky. I don't often get killed directly as a result of a streak bonuses--the odd Stealth Chopper will get me every once in a while, or a UAV will help someone find me more easily, but it's only about once every few matches. In my case, anyway.


                        If they brought vehicles back, I wouldn't mind seeing streak-related bonuses disappear.

                        Last Edited: Feb 27, 2013 7:57 PM
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                          49. Re: COD's biggest problem... the emphasis of score/kill streaks.

                          EDIT: Whoa, this is on a whole new page now. Whoops. xD


                          codchamp wrote:


                          Nope Hardhat was up near the top. I was and dont know if i still am #1 in support. Have not checked in awhile. #2 was a booster named satans feast. My GT is Hard2kill ny


                          (Sorry for going off topic, but...)


                          I don't think I ever played with you, then. I started playing CoD3 right around the time CoD4 came out, and gave up on ranked games right around the time MW2 came out... couldn't ever find a match after that, unfortunately. I was as high as #7 on Anti-Armor for a while, but the leaderboard deletes class-related stats after 90 days of inactivity, so somewhere along the line, I lost the spot. =/


                          Anyway, CoD3 is tied with Black Ops 2 as my favorite right now. Poisson, Merville, Mayenne, Fuel Plant... teamwork... those were some good times.

                          Last Edited: Feb 27, 2013 8:03 PM
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