18 Replies Latest reply on May 4, 2013 11:17 AM by ForestGump RSS

    Probation needs to go

      Earlier today I had joined and left (via menu / Start -> Circle -> Leave Game) three games in a row.


      Game 1) Joined a game on Carrier as it was just beginning. I had previously played Carrier five of seven games previously to this game. Three of the times in the same fashion as this - joining the game as it's beginning - not having a chance to vote in the lobby for another map or random. Needless to say, I was tired of playing this horrible map and simply did not wish to play it again.


      Game 2) Right after leaving Game 1, I threw myself back into queue. I got into a lobby. Hijacked was the voted map (no way!!!!) proceeded to play. Game was close. TDM to be clear. Scores were around the 50s when a friend signed on and invited me to join up. I wasn't doing great but wasn't doing horrible. Took his invite which forced exit to join his party. I received a warning at the menu screen.


      Game 3) My friend placed us into queue. We joined into a game that was almost over on Raid. Enemy team was almost at 60 points. Our team had a single player on it (presumably the host) with less than 20 points. We agreed to leave and find another game.


      Game 4 - or what would have been) Upon returning to the menu, I was given a probation.I know, five minutes - big deal right? Not when it boils down to principle.


      I find this utterly unacceptable. If I, the player choose to leave a game for any reason under the sun there should not be silly reprecussions for doing so. There's no reason to get into a debate about valid reasons of why someone should be allowed or approval given to leave a current game. If he/she is getting their ass whipped, that's perfectly acceptable too so that they can find a game where they might enjoy themselves more. I've read a few threads where proponents of this probation tend to wayyyyyyyyy over exaggerate how much leaving a game early "hurts" other players. But yet such threads have all ended up as straw-man.


      Thankfully I wasn't enjoying this title much. And as such, since it's made by a developer that seems to think that they have the authority to dictate how someone should act or what they can or cannot do in the realm outside of hacking/exploiting, I'm happy to have received an RMA to Amazon for my refund.


      I hope that those who also find these measures over reaching don't become complacent with features that are useless and/or prohibitive. Money does talk.

        • Re: Probation needs to go

          You just have to suck it up and complete the matches. At least I'm not getting a probation or warning when the game ends because the host leaves or gets kicked (like it was before). It's not perfect but it stops the abusers.

            • Re: Probation needs to go

              It's asasine to have an invitation system which you can accept in game play and be punished for doing so. It's also asanine to assume or ask a friend (s) to be required to wait for one to finish their current game. So it really has nothing to do about having to suck it up. Time is valuable to people after all

                • Re: Probation needs to go

                  If you leave you end up waiting anyways don't you?

                  • Re: Probation needs to go

                    Wait ... it's assanine to GET an invitation that you have the OPTION to accept while playing a game?


                    First of all, that's an XBL issue, not a COD issue.


                    But, really, the thought that comes to my mind is this: if it's assanine to recieve a party invite during a match, how much more assanine is it to accept the invite when you know the potential consequences for doing so???

                • Re: Probation needs to go

                  It does not matter if you find this unacceptable or not, it is their game their house, their rules. Obey them or quit playing the game.


                  You do not get to play the game how ever you want just because you paid for it. They still do make the rules of what is acceptable or not and not you or anyone else ever.


                  And to them quitting out of matches and putting your team down is unacceptable regardless of the reason you left the match. So by doing so you dserve to be punished plain and simple.

                    • Re: Probation needs to go

                      Actually it does matter if I find it acceptable. It's turned out to be their loss, not mine - other than the time spent beta testing this game after it's live release. As stated, I'm getting my money back, have my RMA issued. It's as if I rented the game for free minus the shipping cost to getting rid of it. And so that's why it matters. Amazon won't re-sell my copy. They'll have Activision reimburse them for flawed software or whatever protocol they follow when they refund from the manu.


                      See this is what I'm talking about when people make arguments that leaving games for any reason ends up "hurting" or "putting" other people down. It doesn't. Quit trying to be a white knight for a flawed system. It's so stupid, it hurts. If a team is already losing by a wide margin in a game that's already started when a person joins, it's silly to assume they should be forced to "stick it out". It's a waste of time for that particular player to end up playing a game, where more than likely he'll play both bad because their team isn't controlling the flow/map and receive a guaranteed loss for a game in progress that they were not able to initially influence positively. How many times have you joined a game that the time you've been placed on was down by 30-40 points and you've brought them within a small margin of winning? Here, I'll answer that for you. It averages zero.


                      Secondly, people have left games I've been in all the time. Do I give a damn? Whether winning or losing? Not one bit. I've read all this hypothetical bullshit that says that matches lag when people leave/enter but it's so anecdotal, without citation or evidence that it'd be laughed at if it were brought up in a face to face discussion within the dev. room.


                      Quite possibly the most damning evidence against leaving games hurts players is the small fact that when someone leaves, someone else replaces them virtually every.single.time within seconds. Just as my friend and I decided to leave Game 3 on Raid, three other players were connecting in to fill the team to full. I found that the majority the games I join unless I'm in a 3+ person party are always games in progress.




                      That might be online friends that tend to be more courteous. Since I'm older, and I only play with real life friends (not any met over PSN) I wouldn't call themselves or myself impatient, but time is valuable. They have no idea if I've just entered a game that just started, and they aren't going to sit around for eight to ten minutes waiting to find out. If I don't take their invite or I don't take theirs, we end up finding ourselves in separate games. Being courteous to my real life friends is far more important to me by respecting their time or lack of it than if a random group of players loses a team mate on non-competitive gameplay. And there still shouldn't be punishment attached to doing so. If there's going to be, then they should take the invitation system out completely and only allow people to invite each other when they're sitting at the main menu or pre-game lobby.


                      So far, just like on every thread I haven't seen anyone provide one single good reason why probation makes any bit of sense other than "derp, because the devs made it that way, herp". Also it helps if people such as trialstardragon quit leaving an air that they've never left a game in progress.

                        • Re: Probation needs to go

                          It still does not mean what you think matters to them. the have people like you in every game taht are not happy with one thing or another that leave the game. they really do not care since they still made a record sales. So loosing one player or even 1000 is not really going to matter to them that much at this point in the game. Only a fool ever thinks it would. They get on average about 10K plus players a game taht say they hate the game and are never playing it again. but this never changes anything and never will. So coming here and complaing about a feature you fell is not fair does not really matter to them especially since you will no longer be playing the game.


                          On and for the record I leave about 20 matches at a time when I play because of one reaosn or another. and only have ever had 1-2 probations because of it. and many of those I lef were join in progress matches. and yet still only get maybe 1-2 probations out of all of it. So if you are getting more than that it is your fault and not the devs or anyone elses.


                          Message was edited by: trialstardragon

                          • Re: Probation needs to go

                            Well my thought on if you believe your time and your friends time is valuable then you and your buddies should set a time to log on and go from there.


                            As far as any other justification as to why the developers put it in is probably in response to those paying customers whose voice was louder in wanting it than those who didn't want it.


                            In the end does it really matter if you have to wait 5 minutes. If anything changed i think the developers should notify you via this site or an email to your account that warns you the next time you log in you will be on probation for however long and why. Then we can plan on it and adjust accordingly.   

                              • Re: Probation needs to go

                                Yunck, the probation is real time. So if they get probation, they can log back on an hour later and the probation has long ago ended.


                                So this guy is full of crap. He dashboarded, plain and simple. He can try to paint it any other way he wants to, but that's the reality of what happened. And he did it twice within a short period of time. Like TSD, I've backed out of countless games with BO2. Four or five in a row sometimes. I never once have gotten a probation for doing that. Trying to force myself into a probation, though, I dashboarded twice in three matches and, sure enough, I got probation.


                                This notion that "I should be able to enter a lobby and leave a match when I want" is the most ridiculous, childish nonsense I have ever heard. What? Do you go down to local pool hall and start a game of eight ball with a stranger and just walk away when the stranger is winning? You don't think the stranger is going to be ticked? Or what if you're making out with your girl and your bud calls and wants you to go shoot some hoops. You just drop your girl and walk away and think everything is going to be okay?


                                Get real!


                                There is NO penalty for backing out of a match using the in-game menu functions. There IS a penalty if you dashboard to the console menue. And that is exactly how it should be. In fact, I think the penalty is too weak as it is. First time, a warning. Second time, five minutes. Third time? an hour.


                                And as far as the "lag switch" issue, yeah, guilty party pointing fingers there? That's my experience. You throttle your connection there and still get your rear handed to you so you dashboard out. That's more likely what's going on ... IMHO.

                            • Re: Probation needs to go

                              I'm sorry, but your argument is just stupid! I paid $60 for the game plus season dlc pass, totaling about $80! I should be able to play how I want to as long as I'm not cheating at the game. There aren't any serious effects to people playing if others leave (maybe a host migration that gets you killed, so what); you spawn back in play and eventually new people come in, it's not like they were doing much anyways for the team if they left in the first place. It's absolutely ridiculous to be put in "timeout" for leaving a game; some people have lives and need to leave immeadiately sometimes. I also don't like joining in the middle of a game of Domination losing 189 to 89 triple capped with stealth choppers, agrs and swarms (happened to me today, first game of the day). I paid for the game, I can do w/e I want as long as it isn't cheating or hacking. Treyarch needs to get their heads out of their butts and try to fix other bigger issues in the game than people leaving! That is on the bottom of the list of things they should be worried about, the top of this list being people returning/not buying anymore cods from them!

                            • Re: Probation needs to go

                              I know how you feel about getting your a** handed to you. Nothing like going 0-10 in the first few minutes of the game. However. I also relies that its unfair to the rest of the players for me to quit. Weather I'm the host or not game play is affected by me leaving. So i just stick it out and get my 3-18 k/d then i leave the lobby at the end of the game.


                              In my experience most people who send invites are courteous enough to wait til you finish your current match before the head into a lobby. I don't think anyone will fault you for finishing up a game.


                              I've been put on probation before so i feel your pain but in the end its a needed system.

                              • Re: Probation needs to go

                                There is no place for probation in casual public games. I can understand it in league games and clan games, but casual public games where players are not as hardcore as the league players does not need this. When I am placed into game where players have left and the team I have been placed on is losing by 20 or 30 points (team deathmatch). Why would I want to stay? The game is lost if I stay or leave, so I leave. I get probation for leaving, but maybe I should have the option to only join a pre-match lobby where the game, but no, that's not available, so I constantly get placed in games that are already lost.


                                As for leaving games while host, where is my option not to be selected as a host? Doesn't exist.


                                So I will continue to leave a game if I'm placed in a losing match instead of a pre-match lobby, same result if I stay or leave. I will get a probation no doubt. Same if I wish to stop playing during a game and return to the dashboard, I seem to be selected as host quite often, but as far as I'm concerned, if I have had enough of playing and want to go to the dashboard, why should I go through the scenario of waiting for the game to finish?  I don't care if you other players lose points. You are of no interest to me at all. I find most other players on this game play a selfish game and use selfish attitudes. I see no reason why I should be any different from the rest of you.


                                So if I'm host and decide I've had enough of playing and dashboard. Then tough, I don't care what you think. Treyarch should offer 2 options. Only join a pre-match lobby and do not select me as host. Until then, i will continue to leave games how and when I like, probation or not, nothing has changed.

                                  • Re: Probation needs to go

                                    Heres an interesting experiment I ran with a couple of buddies, Party of 3 whenever I was party leader we were placed in games that were towards the end every single time. When one of the others was party leader we were placed in starting lobbies every single time. The other guy it was 50/50.

                                    We did this over several days prior and post DLC.

                                    The common factor turned out to be hosting capability. I never get host. The guy who always got starting lobbies was host 80% of the time.

                                    The third guy was 50/50 on hosting.


                                    Now critics can bang on about guys dashing but if they are getting a massively different experience due to always being put in part games then its unreasonable to criticise or punish them imho. Walk a mile in their shoes etc..


                                    Also when I was party leader the game would split the party up around 30% of the time, curiously it shows everyone together on the leaders screen in pre match lobby even though they are out. Often you dont detect they are gone until the game starts and we realise we are in different games, result? Dash out.- Once more I think the game is going, hey this player would be a good host we can use him here, you dont matter so you can stay there!


                                    Easy answer is to fix these issues rather than hit the players with a punishment imho.

                                    • Re: Probation needs to go

                                      Holloguts wrote:


                                      There is no place for probation in casual public games. I can understand it in league games and clan games, but casual public games where players are not as hardcore as the league players does not need this. When I am placed into game where players have left and the team I have been placed on is losing by 20 or 30 points (team deathmatch). Why would I want to stay? The game is lost if I stay or leave, so I leave. I get probation for leaving, but maybe I should have the option to only join a pre-match lobby where the game, but no, that's not available, so I constantly get placed in games that are already lost.

                                      League doesn't need probation. You simply cannot exit the game once it has begun, and the players are not revealed until the time the game has counted down. If you leave at any point, it's an automatic loss. The reason for this *gasp* is to stop people from dodging games they think they will lose.


                                      Some call that lag. Some call it an unbalanced lobby. Some do it just because they don't like the map. In any case people jump ship because they think their going to play poorly, lower their KDR or just play badly. In real competition you don't get to choose all the variables and you simply play.


                                      I think the probation for Public matches is great. Lobbies sat in limbo, players ducked fair fights and people simply didn't want to play because of a minor inconvenience. Multiplayer is not the same as single player. If you want to play select maps, with everything you want with no lag, make a bot game. If you choose to partake in multiplayer matches (which requires multiple players) than you accept the fact that there are rules to increase the gameplay for all players. Picking and choosing lobbies, maps and advantages simply aren't on the menu.

                                    • Re: Probation needs to go

                                      That's what I hear.

                                      • Re: Probation needs to go

                                        Meh its easy to get around really. I already found the glitch around. Until then if the game is playing like normal (laggy, you come into the middle of a game that is a no win situation, players are lag switching you which by the way is happening ALOT) then do this.  Find a spot to hide and just sit there.  Alot of maps have these spots and enemy players will never even notice you AT ALL.  1.You take up a spot that another player could have used if they allowed you to leave and still make it so the other team outnumbers yours. 2. you don't get probation.  No where does it say you HAVE to participate. Way to go failarch.

                                        • Re: Probation needs to go

                                          To the OP:


                                          The reason you were given probation is very clear cut and you have pretty much admitted it:


                                          You dashboarded three times within a very short period of time. You did so when you landed in a match that was not to your liking in Game 1.


                                          You did so again when you accepted an invite to join a party. Now that one they probably gave you for free.


                                          Nonetheless, when your party decided to leave the match, undoubtedly the party host dashboarded. That's part of the reason I don't play with clans. I can't control when the party host decides he's getting spanked and decides to dashboard.


                                          In any case, the game worked exactly as designed: you were penalized for dashboarding, not because you "backed out of a game."


                                          The good news is that since you won't be playing the game anymore you won't have to worry about your kdr or wlr or even whether or not you land on a map you don't like.

                                          • Re: Probation needs to go

                                            Stop leaving matches! Its not hard to stay and complete a match if you get into a match thats 30 to 40 your lucky usally I get into matches that are like 30 to 60 but I stick it out because my W/L is so high because I don't leave matches to get a automatic loss. U are mad that you got reset, you left 4 straight matches in a row and I garantee you that its because you were doing bad usually thats the case. You deserve to get probation, 5 minutes is a joke, your lucky they don't give you hours/days/weeks because it sounds like this has happend many times before. I love this system I wish they had this back in the other CODs. Also how are they making it so you act a certain way thats why they give you 5min probation everytime nothing more, nothing less. Why would you even play a game like this when your just going to quit half way through each match, Im sure treyarch and activison will miss you .