41 Replies Latest reply: Jan 4, 2013 5:07 PM by Film_Not_Rated RSS

    Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

      Over the past two weeks I've played a ton of Hardcore CTF. I love CTF because of the team element and enjoy being able to contribute in multiple ways to my team’s success, whether that’s through protecting our flag or pushing to take the enemy flag and return it to our base. Pretty frequently though I’ve run into an issue with spawnpoint campers – this is especially prevalent on Hijacked, but can happen on the other maps as well. Usually I put up with it because the offenders are usually just one or two players so I can spawn at a point that isn’t being camped and get revenge.


      Last night though, I hit my last straw. I played on Hijacked, on hardcore, and every single spawnpoint was being camped. I was literally shot or stabbed as soon as I spawned.

      So I did the only thing I could – I filed a complaint against the campers via Xbox LIVE for tampering/exploiting the game. I’m sick and tired of this.

      Why is it enjoyable for the people who do it? And more importantly, why, months after release, is this still an issue? It’s one thing to encounter an occasional spawn camper, it’s another to have one on every spawnpoint and not be able to do a thing.

      My K/D ratio when the players finally were either booted or quit was 0/35. I was persistent, I didn’t want to give them the pleasure of quitting. But this is annoying. I’m playing hardcore and I assume most people playing want a challenge.

      I’d love Treyarch to actually do something about this. Heck, they could just sit in on some of these games on Hijacked and see it for themselves. It’s ridiculous. When will they do something?

        • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

          HC CTF always has and always will suffer from this. The best way to combat this is to play in a party of 6. Otherwise, it is inevitable that this will happen. It happens even worse on Domination. I really only find it to be a problem in HC CTF on 2 maps. Slums and Hijacked. All other maps seem to be spread out enough and not have a spawn bottleneck on one spot on the map.

            • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

              Playing in a party of 6 isn't a solution. I don't have an option to play with 6 people as only a couple of my friends play CoD. Usually it's just me and my wife playing splitscreen together.


              The fact is, you should be able to play this game the way it's meant to be played. I don't mind being outplayed and getting killed, but I do mind when there are 4 spawn points and the opposing team literally sits on them. On regular CTF you may be able to toss a grenade/bouncing betty and kill them before you die, but on hardcore CTF, you die instantly. There's no way out of a spawn trap.


              It's not a gameplay tactic, and even if you did play with 6 people, once the other team is sitting on all the spawn points, you can't do anything. That's an exploit, and needs to be fixed.

              • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                HC CTF did not play like this on BO1. When the game has it's usual lag issues and you can't even shoot the fast running pistol guy...


                ... spawn camp is on.


                I will not play HC CTF until it's addressed. Period.


                The game mode was already laggy but now it's unplayable.

              • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                i agree with you on this. The last few weeks have been worse for CTF players. It is getting annoying having to be killed right after you spawn. This needs to be fixed. especially hijacked and slums. The bottom side of slums is a joke. Your spawn in this tiny area. The need to expand the back part of that map. Make it a little bigger. The other side of slums, near the garage has so much more room to defend the flag. which makes it harder to retrieve. Down on the other side its a quick grab and back through the blue building into the streets where your team can easily defend the flag carrier. The map needs to be bigger. Hijacked is silly. Spawns need to be fixed or more spawn points need to be added.

                • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                  Apparently, if your game play experience is ruined by players deliberately and relentlessly spawn killing due to trapping and not playing the objective (the intended way of playing CTF or Demo). Then its an exploit of the respawn system and should be reported. Just keep in mind, deliberate and relentless, not just getting mad because you've been spawn killed a couple times. Then its up for Treyarch to review and make a decision. On the contrary, I've been told to fight fire with fire. I don't agree with this idea and refuse to go that route. This is the game Treyarch made and these are the tools they put in place. Even if Treyarch changed the respawn system, what happens if your still spawn trapped/killed ? I don't think its a problem that can be fixed since its existed since multi started. They know they should and would if they could.

                    • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                      What I've done is reported people who continuously do it throughout the game.


                      One, two, even a few extra times of getting some cheap kills by waiting by a spawn point? Whatever. It sucks, but whatever. But my last experience was literally spawn, die, spawn die, spawn die. 0/35 K/D. Ridiculous.


                      Those are the people I report. They're also the people who should be banned and it's a prime example of why Treyarch needs to fix the spawn point issue and build larger maps for DLC.

                    • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                      ive been playing hardcore ctf alot the past few days and ive found only hijacked has the problem

                        • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                          Slums bottom  side does, too. I've noticed in a few games that players from the opposing team will sit in the back of the map and kill you as soon as you spawn.


                          Not prevalent in many of the maps, but on Hijacked I almost always encounter an issue where one team will just camp spawnpoints and not try to score, just holding the flag.


                          On regular CTF you might be able to break the spawnpoint camping, but on hardcore CTF it's one shot, one kill and you're a goner in that scenario.

                        • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                          Best thing to do is report them via in game as spawn killing is against the CoC and is bannable/re-set . If you're really annoyed by it you could pass the GT on to @Mattiks on Twitter and he maybe able to help and pass it on  as he's the old head of security for Treyarch but don't know who's in charge now .

                          • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                            My exprience to get rid of campers at the flag is throowing a smoke grenade and wait.

                            Most of the time they will randomly shoot to get a kill, at that moment kill them and get the flag.

                            Also have 2 semtexes you can throw at them while they are shooting at the smoke screen.


                            Most of the times this works for me.

                            • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                              Do not blame the players.  Blame the game designers for being down right dumb when it came to designing these maps.  The spawn system fail is a direct result of the poor map design.  BO2 features the worst maps of any CoD period.   


                              The players are just playing the game Treyarch designed.  The solution is easy.  All maps need to be 30% larger.  Larger maps mean more room and more places to spawn.  The solution is not possible because Treyarch is not going to re-release 20 new maps with 30% more room.  They could potentially give away the BO1 maps which would improve the game play in BO2 by 50% given that most of those maps were large enough to not be in a constant spawn killing situtation. 


                              A team will set up to control the map and to do this on these small maps it means you are going to get spawn killed.  If you don't shoot them they are going to shoot you as soon as they see you.  So what is a player to do?  Wait to be fired upon?  No this is HC they will be dead.  They shoot and move on to the next target. 


                              If I am between you and your flag, you are going to rush and do what every you can to get your flag back.  Am I supose to let you do that because you spawned in front of me?  No I am the defender and I am going to kill you to make sure we can capture the flag.  It is a kill or be killed game, if you happen to be spawning in the area I am defending there is nothing I can do other than shoot.  I did not design the absurd maps like hijacked but I like you am stuck with them. 


                              Also keep in mind on the larger maps (which are still very small) that Ghost does not work anymore and if you are not taking down UAV's you are going to be hunted.  If you play with a team that almost always has a UAV or VSAT up you are not going to lose many matches and it is going to result in spawn killing because you are going to get spawned next to the teammate that was just killed.


                              Then there is the VSAT, which with the group I play with means that from about the 3 minute mark on we are going to know where your are what direction you are facing almost every second of the match.  When you have six people that are great slayers running after large red triangles the other team is going to die alot.  Keep in mind that 1 VSAT insures at least 2-3 more VSATs.  Those VSATs ensure more VSATs and a lot of kills for the team. 


                              The only way to fix the issue is to play with a team.  If you can't do that play HC KC or TDM.  The spawns are way crazy, you trade getting killed from behind all the time for getting spawn killed.


                              This is all a direct result of the maps.  So think about that before you buy a season pass or any of the DLC.  

                                • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                  I hear ya, but I still blame the players for exploiting the ridiculous respawn system Treyarch produced. The reason I'm passionate about that statement is because I purposely do not create a spawn killing trap. There may be a small majority of players like me and a lot of players might mistake my kindness for a weakness but when It comes to objective games Its "plant the bomb, protect the bomb", "grab the flag, cap the flag", "cap the HQ, protect the HQ".. I do my best and try my hardest not to trap a spawn and repeatedly spawn kill to win an objective game. KC, Hard Point and Dom i find are a little different from the rest because of "flanking the enemy" which creates respawning chaos and trapping. But not repeated spawn killing.

                                    • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                      Let's say you are trying to control the left side of the boat on Hijacked.  So you have a teammate run the under route to pop up and get the flag.


                                      However since the spawns are often on either side or behind the flag it is in your best interest to make sure that people are looking down the sides of the map to cover you as you run out to grab the flag. 


                                      So people are set up on the outside of each side.  The runner pops out and gets killed.  This could happen multiple times. 


                                      The two people are not going to back off their positions just to wait for the runner to get back in position.  They are going to hold it and thus creating the spawn killing problem.  There are spawn points in the back or front of the boat that cannot be seen from these postions and they should be the primary spawns. 


                                      The next time the flag carrier pops out he kills first and catches three people spawning in the back so the next three spawn on the sides and are instantly killed.  The flag carrier runs and caps the flag. 


                                      You have no idea how many times people still spawn in front or right behind you as the flag carrier.  You have to make sure people are in respawn before you grab it to make sure you can get out of the spawn area.  It is just how the gamemode works. 


                                      I am not debating the ethics behind spawn killing.  I believe it is wrong.  However in this game you cannot spawn trap you can only spawn kill and that is the problem.  Spawn trapping is a legitimate strategy however the maps do not allow for this to happen. 

                                        • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                          I agree 100%. But I still blame and report deliberate and relentless spawn killers that succeed and ruin my game experience. I don't report a lot of players even though I get spawn killed a lot. Just the ones that I really feel need a looking at.

                                            • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                              I rather another player ruin my experince than the bad development of the game. Anytime I lose, at the core it ruins or at least degrades my experience but it is no reason to report, unless they are actually cheating.

                                                • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                  If they deliberately sit one player from their team on each of 4 spawn points that is cheating. It's not degrading an experience, it's cheating. Especially on hardcore. You don't have a single opportunity to fight back. Spawn. Die. Spawn. Die. Spawn. Die. Literally the second you spawn you die. That's what I'm talking about here. Blatant, obvious spawn camping that is deliberate cheating and exploitation.

                                                  • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                    When I say ruin my game experience, I'm not talking about losing horribly or getting my ass whipped like going 5/15. I'm talking about not being able to play the game at all becuse I walk 2 steps, look down my sights and then die over and over. You get enraged and want to quit. I play the game, and dying on an even playing field is fine with me, as long as its fair and even.

                                            • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                              I'm sorry, but this defense is pathetic.


                                              What you're saying is completely against the spirit of the game. You're saying, "Hey, don't blame me for camping, blame the designers for making it easy to camp."


                                              I could camp. I don't. Why? Because there's no fun in it. The goal of CTF is to have a competition, to fight for the flag. What fun is there in standing at a spawnpoint? Does that give the enemy any shot at all? No.


                                              Furthermore, what I'm talking about isn't taking control of a map, I'm talking about abuse of the system to the point where I die the second I spawn, at every spawn point. That's an exploitation of an in-game issue, and it is a decision made by the player to do so.


                                              Blaming the devs is just plain wrong. Yes, they need to fix the spawn points. But players could easily choose to ignore the spawn points and play the way the game is mean to be played.


                                              While I certainly want to keep the enemy from getting the flag, I have no desire to do so by exploiting the game. That isn't skilled, it isn't fun, it's just plain cheating. I don't care. It's cheating.


                                              Please tell me how it isn't. It's exploiting an issue in the game where there are only a few locations the enemy can spawn and using it to boost your score by killing them constantly and not attempting to capture the flag. Cheating. 

                                              • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                Also, sorry, but the answer is also not: play with a team. I can play as a team, but it's not realistic for everyone playing CTF to know everyone on their team. If I'm the only person online, am I supposed to just pass up on my favorite game mode? No.


                                                In addition, I'm not talking about VSAT or UAV. If I'm getting killed from all over the map, that's one thing. It's sitting on spawn points that is plain old cheating. Using recon to see enemies is not cheating. Sitting where they will spawn is. Plain and simple.

                                              • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                My solution is to allow spawns to reach the enemies base if they push to far.  Less camping would occur because of threat of being killed from behind.  Its simple.  Obviously over time people have figured out ways to control choke points much better than people were doing in MW4 and WAW. More than ever people are doing it. 


                                                Break the spawn rule and start making spawns totally random like FFA.  I swear in WAW spawns were like FFA.  I could never figure out where anyone was.

                                                • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                  Why did you file a complaint? Add them to avoided players sure but a complaint for what? What exactly did they do they do that is against the rules? Spawn trap is a stretegy to stop the other team from leaving a certain area of the map also known as field control, map control, controling the map. Even if they have the flag and don't cap it as they spawn trap you, there is no legitimate complaint to file. The game is more or so about killing and in CTF killing and capping. There are alot of points to be had killing while the flag srrier. Now I will agree the spawning is terrible, but I also don't like playing Highjacked at all, unlkess I am in a full group I leave the lobby, I hate that map.

                                                    • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                      yeah why file a complaint they arent cheating in any way.  they just worked together to push up into your spawn so you couldnt cap their flag. and kept you there so they could win the game.

                                                      • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                        Yes, they are cheating.


                                                        You can file a complaint for boosting, which is a viable complaint according to both Treyarch and Microsoft. When a team sits on all 4 spawn points and doesn't attempt to capture the flag, they are deliberately not playing the game the way it's meant to be played, exploiting the game in a way it isn't intended to be played, and boosting their score by achieving K/D ratios such as 50/2 by simply sitting on all the spawn points.


                                                        Like I said, I often run into one or two players on a team who sit on a spawn point. But, they can be dealt with because I don't always spawn at the spawn point they're camping. For these players, I avoid them. But for a team of players that deliberately doesn't try and score, sits on spawn points, and kills everyone immediately, I will file a complaint.


                                                        For instance, Microsoft suspended players who used the Javelin Exploit in MW2. It was a known exploit that players used to boost their scores. Same scenario here. Because there are only 4 spawn points on Hijacked, it is easy to exploit the game, sit on those spawn points, and abuse the game by unfairly guaranteeing you can kill players infinitely as they spawn. If you have all 4 points covered, the team literally cannot move, cannot shoot, cannot live. That is cheating.


                                                        Like I said, one guy who wants to sit on a spawn point? I'll hit "Avoid This Player." But a team who sits on all the spawn points and makes it impossible to even try and fight back? Complaint.


                                                        This is an easy choice for me to make. They're cheating. They're boosting. They aren't attempting to win. That's the definition of complaint-worthy cheating.

                                                        • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                          What he is describing is spawn killing, not a spawn trap or 'controlling a spawn or area.'   There is a HUGE difference  


                                                          I report those who do it as well.   It's boosting, plain and simple.

                                                        • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                          Spawn camping is griefing and its a bannable offence, and I'm certain Treyarch did something about it in BLOPS 1. But the ease at which is done on this game is amazing. There is no excuse for a multi million dollar franchise on its 9th release, yes 9th! to have issues with spawning. I mean seriously, its pathetic. I know people will blame the players but its the Devs fault it is happening. Certain players will always stoop to try and cheat or exploit to win, but the Developers are paid to prevent this from happening, its their job, and when its Call of Duty you can bet they are paid handsomely. Personally I play this game for the competitiveness and there is no competition waiting for somebody to respawn so I can press the trigger and get the easy kill. But this spawn issue, like every other issue should have been stamped out in Beta but it wasn't and we get another problem to add to all the other problems, and deep down we know none of them will be fixed. And now they will have the cheek to ask us for more money for new maps. We cant even play the old ones you clowns.

                                                          • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                            They are bad but as someone else said fight fire with fire, I did it earlier after 1min in I was 0-8 so I thought I would camp them out and ended the game 38-14 also made the spawn campers rage quit which is always a pleasure


                                                            Oh and my spawn camping doesnt consist of me sitting in a silly corner or behind a barrel I will constantly move in there spawn. I like to run a gun thats why I usually play HC:KC

                                                              • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                                On KC the spawns switch, if your team is in their spawn, the game will swap spawns. But on CTF the spawns don't switch, so if one team goes into the other teams spawn area  the game just puts spawns you back in regardless, and if the other team is standing by a spawn point waiting then its an easy kill for them, and when its hardcore its even easier.


                                                                I would expect this from something amateur like an 80 Microsoft point game on xbox live, but from the most popular FPS franchise on console, no excuse at all.

                                                                  • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                                    No shiet sherlock but did u know on KC or TDM (thats all I usually play) if 4 of your players sit in your spawn and the other 2 run into the opposing teams spawn they will not switch or will only move just outside there spawn, thats how I usually tell if someone is in the usual spawns as u will spawn in the most random of places outside of spawn

                                                                      • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                                        but what has that got to do with this discussion. This is about CTF and how it is ruined by people sitting beisde the spawn points. You cant spawn camp on TDM or KC.

                                                                          • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                                            They are bad but as someone else said fight fire with fire, I did it earlier after 1min in I was 0-8 so I thought I would camp them out and ended the game 38-14 also made the spawn campers rage quit which is always a pleasure


                                                                            THIS IS ABOUT CTF!!!! you then went onto reply telling me how the spawns work in KC and CTF which I already know and thought I would teach u something in my reply afterwards about how people CAN spawn camp on KC and TDM


                                                                            I was thinking about raming a sharp object into my brain while reading your 2 replys just so I could get on your thinking level

                                                                              • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                                                sigh, and here we go


                                                                                you cannot, CANNOT spawn camp on KC or TDM like you can on CTF.,You tried to liken KC to CTF in your post but they are not the same. I explained this politely. You clearly don't understand the difference.


                                                                                So here a video for you, just watch it for 30 seconds and you will see the difference. There is no fighting fire with fire here as you cannot do anything except spawn, die spawn die spawn die and on and on.


                                                                                That is what this discussion is about. and this is why it needs to be fixed.


                                                                                  • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                                                    I will elaborate again for those that cant grasp what im saying


                                                                                    They are bad but as someone else said fight fire with fire, I did it earlier after 1min in I was 0-8 so I thought I would camp them out and ended the game 38-14 also made the spawn campers rage quit which is always a pleasure


                                                                                    Oh and my spawn camping doesnt consist of me sitting in a silly corner or behind a barrel I will constantly move in there spawn. I like to run a gun thats why I usually play HC:KC


                                                                                    where oh where have i likened it to KC, iv merely stated my playing style is run and gun and my prefered game mode is HC:KC


                                                                                    They are spawn KILLING in the video and a bit of spawn CAMPING once the guardians had gone, spawn CAMPING (which is the title of this thread and there was no video of this in any other post on this thread) u sit just outside there spawn. For instance Carrier ur flag is at the back of the ship where the two raised flaps are, they sit on the outside where u run under the ship, by the yellow crane and on the right side by the flap that runs along to the opposite spawn (the missile room as we call it). You will maybe get a couple of steps nearly out the spawn then ur dead.


                                                                                    And my other post afterwards was just abit of info on spawn CAMPING on HC:KC and HC:TDM, but il give an example on Carrier again, if ur team is spread out enough and know what they are doing (like my clan) u can have 2 at the flaps 2 at the opposite spawn and 2 by the stealth plane below and u will spawn CAMP them and even sometimes be there to spawn KILL them.


                                                                                    I see a difference between the words CAMP and KILL a BIG difference


                                                                                    I havent played CTF enough to see the spawn KILLING as I dont enjoy this game mode as much as HC:KC and HC:TDM and I HAVE been spawn CAMPED and sometimes spawn KILLED on these game modes

                                                                                    • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                                                      Wow, that was absolutely ridiculous. Thats a game misconduct for unsportsmanlike conduct in my book. Yes, Treyarch made it way too easy for them, but they exploited the hell out the respawn system.

                                                                                      • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                                                        I bet the dude leading that mess in the video is the first one to complain about rage quitters as well, how ironic.

                                                                            • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF


                                                                              I love Spawn Killing.

                                                                              • Re: Spawn Point Camping RUINING Hardcore CTF

                                                                                @OP, you should have just quit, you wouldn't have gave them pleasure had you quit, trust me.


                                                                                And spawn killing is an exploit in the already horrid spawning logic -People who do it SHOULD be banned, but I don't think they would. You are pretty much boosting by spawn camping, the  player is defenseles.