44 Replies Latest reply on Dec 6, 2012 7:21 PM by supervelous RSS

    Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

      The REAL reason Skill-based matchmaking in public games does not work, and should stick to league play, is too many players with "good stats" think they're too good to go negative.  The second they you or your team puts up K9 or Swarm, they dash or leave game, and the game doesn't get filled. 




      I have been having fun at this game switching between my main account, and my girlfriend's XBL account so I can get a Variety of lobbies, instead of only easy ones, or only MLG tryhards. 


      Casual players play for fun and don't rage quit every time they're doing bad, if everyone did that skill-based would be a LOT more fun, and maybe even work.


      Your thoughts??

        • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

          What does this video have to do with the post?

            • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

              I talk about the topic in more detail in the vid, and it's a game of me on my 2nd account playing against casual players, and you can see they stay in the game despite me getting high streaks. Good stat players would have dashboarded or left game.  I explain that, even if everyone wanted to play competitively with people at their skill level, the rage quit frequency of those who consider themselves "good players" ruins it. 


              I also talk a little about the gameplay and fail a 100+ while playing the objective. I always like to summarize the topic in words when I post vids to give people the option of not watching and still discussing. 


              I have almost 800 posts here so my vid post count is only a small fraction of my overall post count.


              Thanks for your input!!

            • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

              I am casual player, but even I rage quit now and then.


              I never dash, but I do quit the game. My biggest reason to quit thou, is because of connections. If they work too hard against me, I'll back out. There is no fun to be had when your bullets don't go where you ment them to go.


              But then again, I never check my K/D. Dunno how it is, my friend said it's around 1,3 or something. *shrug*


              When I stop having fun, I'll stop playing. But I plan not to rage quit too much.

              • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                Ok, so explain to me where in the COD rules it says that "tryhards" can only play in league play and "casual" gamers can only play in the regular playlist?


                Whats that? There are NO COD rules like that? Gee, I really thought we had something there.

                  • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                    thanks for the comment!


                    I am not saying tryhards can only play league play and casual gamers can only play in the reg. playlist. What I am saying is that Treyarch is skill-based matchmaking in the reg playlists, which is putting me and other decent to good players against try-hards, which I define as someone who only cares about their stats and quits the game when they go bad. 


                    This ruins things because every time I have a good game it seems the whole other team, or the majority of them quits the game, their spots are not filled, and you're left playing 9 versus 2 the rest of the match which is no fair or no fun. 


                    They're very happy to deliver an ass kicking to you, but as soon as you and your team starts killing them with frequency, they quit. 


                    I want it to be like past CODs where they didn't skill match public lobbies, you get a range of lobbies that way - some easy, some evenly matched, and some where you get beat badly.  Then you can play league if you always want to be skill-matched, and hopefully in league there are less rage quits (I haven't tried it yet but I will)


                    Treyarch wants us ALWAYS playing against our skill which might work if people of a certain skill didn't quit all the time when losing/going negative. 

                  • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                    Wouldnt tryharding (what a dumb word) be using your girlfriends account so you can do better because to me, using another account just to do better means you are trying a lot harder to find an easier game by logging into her profile and loading up the game and all that bull instead of just trying harder in game on your own account?

                      • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                        thanks for the comment!


                        I am not playing on her account just to get "easy lobbies".  It originally started as an experiment to see if there's skill matching, I made a vid on it.  My gf still plays on that account as well. 


                        And it's nice to have easier lobbies SOMETIMES...with the #1 reason being, like I stated above and in the vid, I would have bad games, average games, but NEVER good and great games on my main account....


                        Was it because of the increased competition and I can't handle it?  NO.  It is because 9/10 times I put up a K9, Swarm, Lodestar or other high streak, almost the entire enemy team QUITS.  HOW is that fair or fun?


                        Noticed playing on my GF's account, people stay in the game!  9/10 times they stay till the end. Why should I be forced to either get my ass kicked OR if I do good play a boring 9v2 game?  It's not fair or fun.  If Treyarch wants it to skill-match, fill the games when people leave. I mostly play Groundwar and they do NOT fill the games well, unless something has changed in the last few days, I haven't played much.

                        Also btw, the stats on her account is 1.6 KD and almost 275 SPM, hardly terrible and not much lower than my main account 1.85 and about 350 SPM.


                        It's also fun to be able to run around with a pistol, or a lesser used gun and not go 5-30 because you're always matched with full parties of guys with 2 KD's and 400SPM's who headglitch and spawn trap. 


                        I Don't want easy or hard lobbies, I want a VARIETY of good and bad players like every other COD before.

                          • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                            dude you are such a moron and liar,  you clearly stated in a video in abother thread that you were in fact on her account to get easier games.


                            Get your lies straight

                              • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                simply not true. Feel free to watch my vid "Black Ops 2 Skill-Based Pubs".

                                I'm pretty sure that's the one he is referencing. in no part of the vid did I ever say I was playing on that account with the goal of getting in easy lobbies.


                                I say that I noticed, and made a thread on these forums on 11/16, that I was never going up against "bad players". So i decided to play some games on my gfs accout to see if there was some validity to the rumor they were skill matching pubs. basically an experiment to see if that was the case showing evidence such as lobby leaderboards and the scores I was putting up.


                                on 11/16 it wasnt yet a topic people were even talking about. My initial thread was me being curious on why I wasnt seeing a mix of skill levels.


                                but your claim of me saying I was playing in that account just so I could get easy lobbies is not true and I invite anyone to go watch the vid and call me out on it

                            • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                              Love the way "sweaty try-hards" has now slipped into the CoD lexicon (look it up, squeakers) to describe someone who tries to play the game. I think many YouTube commentators have started throwing that one around to explain why they can't pull in those 5324535343-1 death scores anymore.

                                • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                  lol yes it is used by many youtubers to explain why they can't go 150-3 anymore


                                  BUT I use it to describe people who rage quit everytime things aren't going their way.


                                  I always TRY HARD to do well in the game and think everyone should...but I don't think you should leave the game every time you are having a bad game.


                                  Thanks for the comment!!

                                  • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                    Some people take this game too seriously and let their YouTube "stardom" go to their head.


                                    Just move along, after dis-liking the video's of course

                                      • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                        lol I agree on that 


                                        Good thing that doesn't describe me. I only have 79 subs, I do this for a hobby and started because I enjoy COD and wanted to learn a bit about video editing.


                                        I am not a kid and I don't care about getting big on Youtube or even want to. I have a corporate job for one of the top 15 largest companies in the US.


                                        but a lot of the youtube gameplay channels, who have tons of subs and rely on youtube for their income, are mad i think they can't get amazing score lines anymore.


                                        but part of that is the rage quitting. the issue isnt facing equal competition, its that competition always leaving the game and it not being filled.

                                  • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                    Nice video. I agree with everything you said. I don't want to be playing my A game every single game. I want to try and experiment with different setups and fool around with weaker setups. The skill based matchmaking isn't allowing me that.



                                    Like you, I also have a secondary account. I noticed that if you keep the KD lower than 1, you will almost never get paired with people with above 1 KD 99% of the time. The only exception is when a clan uses a low KD player as their party leader. I am running pistols only on that account and I learned a few things I would never learn on my main account. I am enjoying playing with it more than my main account. I don't know if this is just a placebo but I never noticed any lag on my secondary account.


                                    Today, I will try to fool around with snipers and try to quicksope for the first time ever. I know I will suck on it but it's more enjoyable that way than playing with fellow tryhards game after game with little to no room for error. I also noticed that players with lower than 1 KD are more tolerant and more forgiving and generally a lot nicer than the tryhards.

                                      • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                        i also notice a lot less lag and hit detection issues on the other account. I don't know if its connection though, or if you just notice it less when you are playing against players less likely to have great gunfight skills. we tend to notice lag and lag comp most when we die from it. and naturally in an easier lobby you'll die less.


                                        but there could also be something to it. the pool of casual players is larger meaning you might be matched up with people closer to you and with better connection. if you have realy good stats they might be matching you further away


                                        jnasty720 in youtube has a 700spm and lives in texas and he is constantly getting put in lobbies with other youtubers, people in California, Canada, etc. is it because it is harder to skill match his stats?  an interesting question for sure.

                                          • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                            That's how it felt for me. I once erased all my stats after I prestiged and I re-started with 5 KD and I was getting paired with people with godly stats. That lag was unreal and unbearable around that time. My KD on my main ihas now gone down to 1.5 and I'm still lagging. I was playing with my secondary with lower than 1 KD and it seems like there's no lag. I really don't know what's going on but I do believe that the skill based matchmaking has a negative effect to it. I am getting paired with people as far away as New Foundland on my main account and that's some 1,500 miles away from me.

                                        • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                          Try hard. This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means. Why would a try hard quit?   I truly hate these words kids keep making up to make them feel cool.

                                            • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                              maybe a bad choice of words. my understanding of the word was people who try so hard for their stats, that they cannot handle bad games. but maybe you're right and I misunderstand.


                                              I try hard to win and play well but I also get my ass kicked sometimes as well


                                              example of tryhard from my definition and what I'm talking about in my vid and OP


                                              the other day I was playing solo bs full party. guy on the other team in full party goes 64-7 in 1st round of dom and finishes something like 86-15.  i didn't do well, think I went 25-22 with only 3 caps or something, not bad but not good either.  kept getting killed by his streaks.


                                              the very next game we started out good. We capped A and B, were holding it down. check the scoreboard and notice 86 kill guy is 4-6. 30 sec later. host migration. check scoreboard. entire enemy team except 2 guys gone including 86 kill guy.


                                              thats my definition of the term. he will stay in every game hes doing well and dash out of every game he is doing poorly.  since this game hasnt refilled lobbies well, that kills skill based matchmaking IMO. fill the lobbie and everything would be fine.


                                              in some of my best games in MW3 against "good players" if you watch it back you notice people were also leaving all the time, but the game was good about filling their spots.

                                            • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                              Hey super, i to have a second account, and i played on it for the first time last week, and, i didnt get put into any lobbies that were near what the game thinks was approppiate for my skill level. straight away i was put in with people with 300 plus SPM, 2nd to 4th prestige. think its not as black and white as your thinking.

                                                • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                  i dont know man, it seems obvious to me but who knows how the matchmaking actually works. I just know I went from a high of 55 kills to frequently being able to post scores like the above. 2 80 kill games. mulitiple 70+ etc.


                                                  but lately i've been getting matched up with more prestigers and high stat players. it could be that they tweaked something, or the stats on that account are just getting better. it could also go off weekly or monthly instead of overall stats. who knows.

                                                • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                  to be honest you probably just had a better connection. quiet a few of your kills made little reaction to you.  I'm not saying you're pap i'm just stating lag kills any sence of reward.


                                                  i have very few even matches i either dominate or am dominated, team wise i'm talking about though i regularly sit in top 3 for team.


                                                  i now just feel cheap, when i have an awesome match part of me feels that lag comp probably handed it to me so now there is no buzz.  i suffer or my opponents suffer, skill doesn't really feel envolved anymore.

                                                  • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                    Yet another video of someone who has near perfect hit detection. Very rare. Cudos.


                                                    And your tryhard definition is kind of lame. Backing out doesnt make you a tryhard, unless its done at last few moments before the match ends haha. You thinking someone/team backing out because you were beating them isnt fully justified either. Having the game beat you and not the player, by the time you realize youve gone 1 and 6 from shoot first die first moments why would anyone stay in the match. And if youve got 2-3 other players on your team with the same issues it only intesifies the situation. By the time you know it the enemy(you) has k9s and swarm. Why would anyone stay in the match if they were wronged by the game from the begining? Theres taking a loss for actually trying and then theres losing because the game tells you to f yourself.


                                                    Regardless of my biitching, congrats on the awesome game. Hopefully the game will work like that for all of us eventually.

                                                    • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                      I must be too old and mature to really understand what a "sweaty try hard" is.........

                                                      • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                        Looks like a lag compesation resipeint to me. Head to head battles, other team not firing a single shot almost like they don't see him at all. What skill is involved in running haphazard circles around the map not even checking corners? That's the issue in this game. Skill equals good side of lag comp. Nothing else.

                                                          • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                            certainly could be man!  I agree!  connection is so huge in this game. I have played plenty of matches where I felt the enemies had a half sec drop on me, and it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of having great games, bc it could just be you had a half sec drop on them.


                                                            although in this gameplay you'll notice I shot alot of enemies in the back and sides which is what I try to do to counter against lag comp. They almost always spawn on plaza on either end and it flips alot, basically causing you to run in circles around the map. get to the other side, spawn flip, repeat.


                                                            but yea, they really do need to fix connection in this game 100% agree.

                                                          • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                            SO, I go on my main account tonight, play a few games, struggle, then finally have a good game against the "good players" Treyarch is matching me up with!!!


                                                            Quick Clip (less than 1 min)


                                                            • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                              I think you are confusing "try hards" with "stat whores" sometimes one in the same but not necessarily.

                                                                • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                                  yeah, said earlier I may have misunderstood the meaning of the word Tryhard.  Although it seems everyone is getting caught up with the words used?  But the word doesn't matter.   The issue is players who I am talking about always rage quitting when things aren't going their way, and it happens WAY more frequently with people who think they're "good".


                                                                  I like stat-whore.  Let's just say on my main account I am always matched up with stat whores, and the above clip is what happens 9/10 times I put up big streaks against them.


                                                                  Either that or if one of them isn't the host, we are left with 9v2 for the rest of the match.

                                                                • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                                  Rage quiting is not just about stats or getting beat by a better player. Its a product of one thing and until the playing field is fair this will always be a part of the game.


                                                                  There are over two dozen websites selling modded controllers. One has posted selling over 800,000 of them. Nuff said.

                                                                  • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                                    Does anyone know exactly what is used for skill based matchmaking in public games? Is it SPM, K/D or win/loss? Treyarch originally said they were going to use win/loss for league play but I cannot find any info about public matches.

                                                                    • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                                      i dunno man. i play a lot of objective game play like DOM and CTF. if i get on a team thats not playing the objective i dont think i really want to stay on that team ya know? thats not fun. my whole goal in this game is to have fun and to make a difference for my team. but if my team is happy just trying cap A flag and sit back on DOM, or just camp the running lanes in CTF, then im not gonna stick around. cause i can go get the flag, sure, then get pulverized as i return to my flag,  or i can go and try to get B flag in DOM, but at the end of the day, if its the entire enemy team against just little ol me who is playing the objective, then thats just a waste of time.


                                                                      but i understand your viewpoint as well.

                                                                      • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                                        i understand your point about people not wanting to quit but when theres a vsat, dogs and a swarm in the air all you are going to do is die. I'm sure thats fun for the guy going 100 - 5 but who wants to continually spawn and die in 2 seconds for 5 minutes?


                                                                        I havent ever been in that bad a situation although have been against dogs and constant lodestars. You cant shoot them down for dogs and opponents plus the lodestar shoots missile quite quickly. Its a no win back out of lobby after the game situation.

                                                                          • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                                            if course its no fun for the guy spawning and dying, but you know what when that guy gets his first dogs or swarm how pissed do you think he's goin to be when he calls it in and the game ends because the enemy team quits. getting destroyed sometimes is part of the game, it makes you a better player if you learn from your mistakes.


                                                                            I just got dogs and a swarm put up against me the other day on Plaza. I didn't quit, I put on my blind eye class so the swarm doesn't see me and shot dogs from the roof.


                                                                            Also, all this would be moot if they just filled the lobbies every time people quit out, but then again people dont want to spawn into a losing game with streaks in the air.


                                                                            imo who cares if you die a lot in the game. eventually you'll be the 100-5 guy and you won't want people quitting out then.

                                                                          • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                                            I'm about to rage quit this thread because it's stupid.

                                                                            • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                                              It all is a result of a poorly implimented game.


                                                                              I played a few games after a week break, boy did that make a huge difference (well not really).


                                                                              The game is all about connection.  If you have it you are fine if not you are upset.  I was playing HC last night and the host was so bad it was taking me full clips to kill people.  I stuck with the game because other than that one person I was getting tons of kills and points.  Everytime I encountered that person I would die.  No matter what each and every time I had the jump on that one persons and each time I died in a HC match.  I go 1 and 7 vs. that person.


                                                                              Than there is the maps which are so small you can't go a match where you are not spawn killed 3-10 times.  Well I am sure everyone loves to be spawn killed a few times a match. 



                                                                              People leave because in these cases it is not a fair fight and it is a no way to win the battle. 


                                                                              The serious question is does the suspected skill based match making system create that lag or increase the lag?


                                                                              Even if skill based MM had no lag, I think here is the part Treyach is missing.  People who play for fun are not looking to spend hours of time struggling for wins.  They want those games where they go 20-2 or 40-10.  Those games hook people, and keep them comming back for more.  When they force players to play against others that are better or similar in skill they are making it so they don't have those big games.  Under the new system they get a ton of games where they go about even.  Great I went even, lets play another game where I go even. 


                                                                              It is the combination of the maps, the spawns, the connection issues and the MM system that have people quitting.  If the maps were larger and I would not get spawn killed 5-10 a match I could deal with dying a few times to the connection issues.  However, I now have to deal with both, which is why I struggle to go positive.  It is hard to work yourself out of a 10 -15 death whole because the game was designed poorly. 


                                                                              So now you have players that are not having the huge kill games and are often put in the hole because of the game design from a k/d perspective.  There gets to a point of no return and they quit.


                                                                              Here are my thoughts.


                                                                              I would like to see them put the old BO 1 MM search system logic in.  Find the best game connection wise and worry about skill for league play only. 


                                                                              I think this alone would fix a lot of the poblems.


                                                                              I would also like to see them provide a free map pack of all of the mid to large BO 1/W@W maps to every person who bought the game.  This will provide larger maps to play and fix so many of the spawn issues that occur on these shoe box sized maps.  If I am not getting spawn killed I can deal with a few deaths via connection issues. 

                                                                                • Re: Sweaty Try-hards Ruin Skill Based Matchmaking - Video

                                                                                  man I agree 100% with this.  One reason COD has become so popular is the "Reward" system of cool Killstreaks for doing well, and the promise that if you get good at the game, or have a great game, you will get to use these cool streaks to annihilate the other team and put up a big score. 


                                                                                  Now that they are matching people up by skill, it is now more of a 1 kill to 1 death game, even for the players in the past who had no problem regularly getting those streaks. 


                                                                                  Also wish they'd put old matchmaking back in, Connection should be 1a, 1b, and 1c on the priority list before anything.