29 Replies Latest reply: Nov 19, 2012 2:34 PM by shonk RSS

    Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

    flobot84

      Hi Guys, out of interest I thought it would be good to collate some information about our ping times and where we stand with the lag compensation. That way we might get a better understanding of why we may be suffering.

       

      Personally I measure a 17ms ping on pingtest.net and my experience is the worst I've had in a COD game to date. I honestly feel like I can't drop guy who is AFK.

       

      I recently changed my xbox from wired to wireless, this puts my ping to around 26ms on my wireless network. This seemed to make the experience a little better.

       

      Last night I was featured in the final killcam a few times - each time I noticed (as well as felt when achieveing the kill) that the first 2-3 bullets on target didnot register as hit markers. It then shows between 5-10 hits, all of which look clearly on target and show the hit marker x, before the enemy drops. This of course is more of a problem the other way around where an enemy team can appear to be formed of mlg pros in which I die without being able to touch my scuf gaming hair trigger to shoot back before I drop.

       

       

      I'm aware that many people are experiencing this and would like to understand what impact different types of connection are having on the game.

       

       

      Disclaimer for the trolls: this thread is intended to gather some useful information and understanding and is not me complaining because I am struggling. I truly believe that Treyarch will fix this, but perhaps our information can benefit them in some way.

        • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

          Im experiancing this as well. This CoD is the most inconsistant game I think Ive ever played. I can put half a clip into a guys chest, getting the damage indicator, then have the guy turn around and stab me. Watching the kill cam, it shows I never fired a shot. Other times, they drop like flies with 1-2 bullets.

          I catch myself more than ever, stopping to reload after "knowing" Ive killed someone, then die and get a +25 assist from it.

          Black ops 2 is horribly inconsistant in everything from deaths to weapon experiance. Unfortunatly people are turning away from the game in droves to go back to MW3 already because the game is "bullshit".

          • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

            Dont waste your time, there are no magical Router settings that are going to Fix this issue, Its just like MW3 .

             

            Save your time and sell the game , Move on.

            • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

              I average like a 56 ping and download of 6 and upload of 1.2 or something. Pretty crappy internet but I'm suffering from lag comp so much. Worse than MW3.

                • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                  flobot84

                  That is interesting - I was half expecting connections a bit slower to suffer less. It must be so inconsistent that there simply isn't a pattern to be found.

                  • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                    whiteknight1902

                    So how exactly will lag comp affect you? lag comp affects the hosts (not that I see a problem with lag comp), not people with slower internet like you.

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    On topic, I dont think its lag comp thats the problem, when I host there is no issue (40 down 9 ish up and although it makes no difference imo my pingtest result is 5ms) the only issue I have is the game picking crap hosts sometimes.

                     

                    I do search for the best connection on games now and 90% of the time I host or if I dont the host has a stable connection.

                      • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

                        here is my anecdotal experience.  i have time warner extreme internet(ping typically 20-25), gigabit router, ports forwarded, wired xbox, etc...

                         

                        running like this i had all the aforementioned problems.  so i first changed my xbox ip from static to dynamic and stopped port forwarding.  my overall experience improved slightly but stil with plenty of wtf moments.

                         

                        so i then unplugged the xbox and connected over wifi.  this improved my experience even more.  but its still not anything remotely close to smooth. 

                         

                        if i knew how to further dumb down my internet i would.  this is crazy.

                        • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                          flobot84

                          You may have answered the question - if you don't understand people in this thread then you simply haven't seen the effect of the lag compensation system at its worst. Your 5ms ping is completely relevant - that is an excellent speed, with almost no lag.

                           

                          It may hint that the system is currently favouring only very good connections. Lets see what others think though.

                          • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

                            I dunno. I know that I'm paying for better service than that, but that's what speedtest told me on one of my slower computers. IE on the xbox is instant compared to my desktop and it handles BF3 and all other games smoothly. It may not be lag comp, but I'm experiencing the second behind. Had it in mw3 too. BO1 was fine most of the time. I have 4 bars every game. So my internet may not be the greatest numbers, but I'm always getting 4 bars and all other games play fairly.

                          • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                            shonk

                            If the best you can do is a 56ms ping to your local server you would be one of the people who benefit'd hugely in the mw3 lag compensation

                             

                            56ms is a very poor ping and you are one of the people who lag the game up

                             

                            in 56ms i can ping a server around 2500 miles away

                          • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

                            Pingtest picks the nearest and best host to check your ping , mine averages 15m/s but your never going to get that ingame because your pinging a host not a dedicated server , so your pingtimes are going to be much higher as is your packet loss and latency.

                            The problem for us "low ping high speed connection" peeps is were taken out of the equation by lag compensation which is effectively winding back our ingame clock to put us inline with the slower players , i have managed to combat this to quite a large degree by choosing "BEST" in connection type ingam. The downfall of this of course is if your in a party that setting has to be pretty much ignored by the game to get everyone into a match.

                            PS.this is not a troll

                            • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

                              You all may well have a 15ms ping speed or whatever - to the server that you are performing the  ping test on.

                               

                              Try pinging the MW3 servers direct and you will see a very different result...

                              • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

                                Pingtest picks the nearest and best host to check your ping , mine averages 15m/s but your never going to get that ingame because your pinging a host not a dedicated server , so your pingtimes are going to be much higher as is your packet loss and latency.

                                The problem for us "low ping high speed connection" peeps is were taken out of the equation by lag compensation which is effectively winding back our ingame clock to put us inline with the slower players , i have managed to combat this to quite a large degree by choosing "BEST" in connection type ingam. The downfall of this of course is if your in a party that setting has to be pretty much ignored by the game to get everyone into a match.

                                PS.this is not a troll

                                 

                                PS forget wireless and stick that cable back in , xbox wireless is a ballache at the best of times

                                  • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                                    flobot84

                                    I think a few are missing the point - I am not suggesting I am getting a xxms ping to the BO2 servers or to the host for that matter - this is an indicator of line speed for reference.

                                     

                                    The purpose of the thread is to establish the types of connections that are suffering the worst to better understand what is going on.

                                      • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                                        shonk

                                        I have the lowest ping in every game i play

                                        unless i get dumped into an american game ofc

                                         

                                        a mid game migration is 100% based on latency

                                        and i win that 99.9% of the time and get given host

                                         

                                        and then by magic due to the game actually picking

                                        the person with the lowest latency for once

                                        every single person in the game is a solid 4 bar

                                        when im host

                                         

                                        if people pull a 3 bar to me they are either americans

                                        or have very very bad internet

                                         

                                        People moan about getting host

                                        let me tell you something

                                        I like getting host in black ops 2 not due to be going on a rampage

                                        and getting loads of kills but as my hitmarkers are clean most of the time

                                        i can just about pull even

                                         

                                        when im not host i have the lowest ping in the lobby by far and get so badly punished, its a joke and i cant even kill people from behind

                                         

                                        Its quite common for me to get dumped into a game thats already running

                                        and the host is very poor and everyone inc the host is 3 bar due to the host having no upstream bandwidth

                                         

                                        and i still pull a 4 bar

                                         

                                        I feel very strongly that i shouldnt need to dumb down my latency and never have in any cod

                                         

                                        but its coming to the point that i feel that if i added 16ms of downstream delays and 16ms of upstream delays

                                         

                                        which would take my latency to around 40ms so i would be average in the lobby

                                        and still be able to pull a 4 bar to good servers

                                         

                                        that maybe i would get a kill once in a while

                                        • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

                                          sorry i misunderstood . so heres my latest speedtest

                                           

                                          http://speedtest.net/result/2311854948.png

                                           

                                          If im hosting or playing i get terrible "lag" by that i mean i dont seem to hit anything , but everything can hit me. After changeing connection type to "best" it got much much better

                                            • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                                              shonk

                                              your latency is only average

                                              you may well suffer from lag comp against laggier players

                                               

                                              but no where to the level of people with sub 10ms pings

                                               

                                               

                                              http://speedtest.net/result/2169862666.png

                                                • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

                                                  I see what you mean ive had issues with BT and my ping but its like banging your head against a brick wall , its fiber and should be better. If im hardwired it does improve and my xbox is hardwired so that may be an improvement but i have no way to test.

                                                  It is FTC and not FTP so im wondering if thats affecting my ping

                                                    • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                                                      shonk

                                                      You are on VDSL2 and are running at the max your line will support

                                                       

                                                      going by your 14 Mb upstream benchmark

                                                       

                                                      if you dropped to 40/10 instead of 80/20

                                                       

                                                      your noise margin will be much larger

                                                      so any problem bin's wont be used

                                                       

                                                      and you should get fastpath

                                                       

                                                      bt's dlm is all automated if your line is capable of maintaining fastpath

                                                      it will be put on it within around a week

                                                       

                                                      never ever reboot the bt modem

                                                      as dlm will think there is a problem and take you off fastpath

                                                      you can reboot the home hub as much as you like

                                                        • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                                                          maccabi

                                                          shonk wrote:

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          and you should get fastpath

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          I would NEVER advise anyone to switch to fastpath, I'm surprised with your knoweldge of adsl connections would even suggest it.

                                                           

                                                          If you add fastpath to your connection yes you will slightly lower your ping as the dslam passes your packet to the first hop without error correction.

                                                          The downside of this and a major con for gamers is the slight decrease you get on your ping times is wiped out as you will increase the amout of dropped packets and loss of line stabilty and ability to sync to servers on the internet. (this will impact on things like streaming for example)

                                                           

                                                          In a game like Call of duty that uses the UDP protocol (which has a approx 5% packet loss associated to it anyways) doing anything that can increase this is bad and will actually see your gaming expereince deteriorate .

                                                           

                                                          While ensuring you are connected to a host and have a low ping is the basis of matchmaking, thats only one aspect of the whole mechanism , theres no point knocking 5 off miliseconds off your ping if you then still cant play due to line quality and transmission qualiy going tits up.

                                                            • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                                                              shonk

                                                              Firstly i didnt advise him to go onto fastpath

                                                              i said if his line was capable of it dlm would auto set it

                                                               

                                                              Secondly Fastpath doesnt cause a mass of errors like you state

                                                              if your line is capable

                                                               

                                                              My line lengh is 900m lets look at my error rate

                                                               

                                                              RSUnCorrectedErrorsDn                          = 40
                                                              RSUnCorrectedErrorsUp                          = 16
                                                              Linkuptime                                     = 2 day 16 hr 56 min 6 sec

                                                               

                                                              Downstream CRC0 Error Rate one packet every 97.4 Mins

                                                              Upstream CRC0 Error Rate one packet every 243.5 Mins

                                                               

                                                              also a CRC0 error doesnt result in a dropped packet it results in a retransmit, which in my case is a 3ms penalty from the dslam to the modem

                                                               

                                                              Also the use of udp doesnt mean that you will get 5% dropped packets, I can assure you my udp dropped packet rate is 0%

                                                               

                                                              5% is a quoted average across the internet due to poor isp's peering, overloading etc..

                                                               

                                                              e.g. virgin media customers when virgin's main linx peer is overloaded drops packets like there's no tomorrow

                                                               

                                                              e.g. 3g users are a huge portion of this 5% figure due to timeouts that are treated as a loss but in reality just turn up very late 4000ms and such

                                                               

                                                              e.g. people on dodgy wifi connections causing masses of dropped packets before they even leave the house

                                                                • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                                                                  maccabi

                                                                  shonk wrote:

                                                                   

                                                                  Firstly i didnt advise him to go onto fastpath

                                                                  i said if his line was capable of it dlm would auto set it

                                                                   

                                                                  Secondly Fastpath doesnt cause a mass of errors like you state

                                                                  if your line is capable

                                                                   

                                                                  My line lengh is 900m lets look at my error rate

                                                                   

                                                                  RSUnCorrectedErrorsDn                          = 40
                                                                  RSUnCorrectedErrorsUp                          = 16
                                                                  Linkuptime                                     = 2 day 16 hr 56 min 6 sec

                                                                   

                                                                  Downstream CRC0 Error Rate one packet every 97.4 Mins

                                                                  Upstream CRC0 Error Rate one packet every 243.5 Mins

                                                                   

                                                                  also a CRC0 error doesnt result in a dropped packet it results in a retransmit, which in my case is a 3ms penalty from the dslam to the modem

                                                                   

                                                                  Also the use of udp doesnt mean that you will get 5% dropped packets, I can assure you my udp dropped packet rate is 0%

                                                                   

                                                                  5% is a quoted average across the internet due to poor isp's peering, overloading etc..

                                                                   

                                                                  e.g. virgin media customers when virgin's main linx peer is overloaded drops packets like there's no tomorrow

                                                                   

                                                                  e.g. 3g users are a huge portion of this 5% figure due to timeouts that are treated as a loss but in reality just turn up very late 4000ms and such

                                                                   

                                                                  e.g. people on dodgy wifi connections causing masses of dropped packets before they even leave the house

                                                                  Yes it does,

                                                                   

                                                                  end of the day you have always said the opposite of what i do no change there.

                                                                  5% is an average and its one thats considered a industry standard for udp thats a fact. and thats a fact since long before 3g and everything else you are citing.Mosy internet based applications are designed to allow foe this

                                                                   

                                                                  oh and btw posting all that stuff above...totally pointless and you know it is (giving you the benifit of the doubt on your claim to be a networking expert) as you know full well UDP doesnt register as erros or dropped packets as it isnt like tcp/ip which makes a direct connection between points and there is no built in error or logging capabilities in the headers.

                                                                   

                                                                  End of the day fastpath IS not a good move for anyone wanting a smooth expereince gaming online. That is a fact

                                                                   

                                                                  But you're are fully aware of this fact so i dont know why you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

                                                        • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                                                          flobot84

                                                          Unfortunately all of my experience is with the search on 'best' - 'normal' is an absolute no-go

                                                    • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                                                      Ss78_

                                                      I have a good ftth connection. This game is unplayable as host. As soon as the host leaves and it picks me the game becomes worse, always. It's occasionaly better when not host, not always though. There's no point in supplying ping tests as there's too much disparity. Best doesn't help and the matchmaking is bad.

                                                       

                                                      I'm never on the good side of anything in this game. They still haven't changed .27 yet since saturday and that's only made it worse for me. They also still haven't bothered to own up and address to the connectivity issues.

                                                       

                                                      If you're having a good experience, fine, I'm not.

                                                      • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

                                                        Lol, I made a thread kinda like this but I asked "who is actually benefitting from this?" If it helps your thread out any, I do not benefit (except in maybe 1/25-30 games) with a 80-110ms Ping, 15-20 Down, and a 2-6 Up. I've had identical issues to people with amazing internet. I've watched videos on it to be sure.

                                                         

                                                        Also on my Grandparent's DSL, which has 1.2 Down and .45 Up and 170ish Ping. I had 2 bars and the game was unplayable. The only connection I have yet to play on is a solid <30ms Ping connection so I can't say anything there but it looks like you guys have the same issues.

                                                         

                                                        Maybe everyone is hurt by this form of Lag Comp and its rotating?

                                                          • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis
                                                            flobot84

                                                            Yes, to be honest I'm more confused that when I started the thread.

                                                             

                                                            A few observations I have made -

                                                            it seems my 17-25ms ping is actually pretty decent (I had assumed it was only average) with only super fast connections ahead of it.

                                                            At least one person with a very fast connection and one with a slower connection have posted as said that they are struggling the same, so the problem seems to be one of inconsistency rather than an obvious flaw.

                                                            Finally, I guess those people that are benefitting don't see the need to come on the forums! All of our experiences hint thta somebody is benefitting because there are a lot of easy kills just on me alone...

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            I'm just waiting to boot up later and maybe see a game update waiting... here's hoping.

                                                            • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

                                                              I'm in the US, and in new england / east coast.    ive got 25 down 5 up i get like 1-2 ms ping to my closest 10 miles, 10 -15 ms to NYC 250 miles, and 30 -50ms to LA 2500 miles.     i'm not really experiancing much lag, or lag comp.   on a couple of occasions the killcam showed i was a little behind,   but so far the experiance has not been terible.conversly on only a few occasions have i ever felt unstopable.   so i would say i'm pretty even.

                                                               

                                                              also i have yet to see any 2 bar connections in the lobbies i'm in,   always 3 and 4,   for some reason, sometimes i'm a 3, and other times 4, i asume its my connection to the host which varies?

                                                               

                                                              changing to "best" search, and closest google DNS made a huge difference.

                                                            • Re: Ping Times and Lag Compensation Analysis

                                                              I find it funny that most of the population that plays COD are not even aware of LAG comp and it's effects gamplay. I thought MW3 was bad,boy was I wrong. BOII is by far the worst that I have exp to date.

                                                               

                                                              If I play solo I pull host all the time; when I'm clearly shooting first and still get downed over and over I leave and guess what ( host migration ).  My Dowload is: 22, Upload: 6 and Ping to a local server is around 20. Every now and then I get a pretty solid connection and the game feels great and it's really fun. Also I may add that I'm always put into foreign lobbies which are mainly Spanish from what I can tell.  I'm not sure why this is, maybe due to my location/region (New Orleans, LA) and the servers just allocate within the same region as them.

                                                               

                                                              I'm on PS3 and all of my gear is pretty good: Motorola DOCSIS 3.0 , NetGear higher end router which I have hardwired to the PS3. Open Nat type as well. Punished constantly!  Most of my Buds I game with have significantly weaker connection and gear and have a slightly better experience. So in turn spending money on good gear and a solid Net connection has got me nowhere.

                                                               

                                                              Bottom line is that we are all experiencing Lag some worse than others but its there. I believe there are too many variables for connections to balance right for everyone.