Honestly, most the complaints are about freezes and not being able to join servers. Codes not working, lobbys constantly looking for extra players and balancing teams . Bad lag compensation, campaign save data being lost, peoples hard disks becoming corrupt, ect ect. The gameplay might be good but the product as of right now sucks balls.
Assuming the fix all the bugs (and going by Treyarch's track record, they will), I'll go out on a limb and say that Black Ops 2 is going to give CoD4 a run for its money as "best Call of Duty title ever". In the limited gameplay I've been able to get in I have been blown away by the refinements and improvements: to the flow of the game & the maps (as you pointed out), to the balance of the weapons & weapon classes, to ironing out many of the complaints the community has had over past titles (campers, second chance, killstreaks being too weak/easy to counter, etc). Even little things, like adding the "mute all but party" feature. It's very obvious that Treyarch has been listening to its customers & has tried to put out a product which will please most of the loyal Call of Duty fans.
The more vocal complaints you're hearing represent a small minority among the people playing these games, and as you said, are most likely the ones who created a lot of the problems the rest of us hated in prior titles. They're used to camping in corners or windows with ghost on & getting their 7:1 kill ratios while completely ignoring the objective, and now they've found that these tactics just don't work anymore. Good! Those of us who do play the objective were beyond sick & tired of these kids sitting in a back corner waiting for someone to try to flank past them, or running around trying for 360 quickscopes when their team is down 160-35 in Domination.
The majority of us just want to be able to play the game they designed here. Little details like spawn points or lag compensation or overwatch killstreaks killing the user can and will be fixed via updates down the road, so for the people screaming about that just chill for the moment while they try to make the game stop crashing our consoles first.
You said:"I'll go out on a limb and say that Black Ops 2 is going to give MW4 a run for it's money as best COD title ever"
I'll one up that by saying that this is so far the best COD title ever and it is better than MW4 could possibly be!
I thought Black Ops was the best title ever and still believe it far superior to MW3. BO2 has it beat though. I know a thousand MW fanboys will jump on this and give all kinds of opinions why MW series is so much better and that's OK. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I however, have always preferred Treyarch COD titles to any other developer. COD 4: MW was a great and original idea. That led to it being a great game but every MW title since has offered very little that's revolutionary or original. Actually, from a graphical standpoint, MW titles have gone downhill since COD 4.
Each new Treyarch COD title offers something more exciting than the previous and that's how games should be. I don't know if this tired franchise can hold out long enough for a BO3 to be made and if it doesn't I'm quite sure this will forever remain my favorite COD title of all time.
I'm pretty sure MW4 will be the nail in the coffin for that series. I might be wrong, it's surprising that it's been so popular for this long IMO. I just don't see how anyone but the most dedicated of fanboys can keep buying the same old rehashed game over and over every other year. Of course I myself keep buying it too, but I usually wait and buy it used once I've seen a little of it for myself. I liked the 'Confirmed Kill' addition to MW3, but I'm just not sure I could pay full price for a new game that really only offers one new thing that I like.
To sum it all up....I really hope they fix these problems soon. I love this game, just as I've loved every Treyarch version of COD. I definitely believe this will still be on my playlist long after MW4 releases. In fact, I may just skip MW4 all together...as I said, new titles in the series just don't really offer enough new and exciting additions to keep me interested. Mostly the only reason I bought MW3 was to play with friends who can't seem to get enough...for whatever reason, that's beyond my comprehension.
I'll one up that by saying that this is so far the best COD title ever and it is better than MW4 could possibly be!
I pretty much agree, but I wanted to temper my enthusiasm a little on the basis that the game is still brand new and there are bound to be some MP exploits or "overpowered" setups which will come to light later. Really, the one complaint I have so far, other than all the bugs, is that they got rid of the cod point system. I enjoyed building up my unlocks each prestige in the original BO. Well, actually I kinda miss the challenges required to unlock pro perks, too (except tac mask which was just annoying each time), but I'm open to seeing if the new system of unlocking gun attachments ends up being more fun.
Agreed the game rocks once they get of the bugs buuutttt, you're wrong in two areas, Zombies isn't quite as good as in the previous titles but that;s still up to debate (for me at least). Secondly,, and to much, much my dismay Quickscoping is still alive and well. It's so lame and still so easy. Maybe the Killcams are off but in many quickscopes the cross-hairs aren't even on point.... It's really really sad how easy they made quickscoping on this game..... Aside from that fix the lag and tweak the bugs and it rocks 110%
Would be awesome if they made it a bit more realistic. They can add a delay in the focus, as most snipers need to adjust. Also, on longer range the bullets should be affected more by wind and gravity. Still, snipers belong in modern day warfare. Though I rarely snipe, I do feel they belong in the game.
Would be awesome if they made it a bit more realistic. They can add a delay in the focus, as snipers need to adjust their scope anyway. Also, at longer range the bullets should be affected more by wind and gravity. COD sniper's apparantly have no need for a spotter due to the magical scopes. Still, snipers belong in modern day warfare. Though I rarely snipe, I do feel they belong in the game.
Meh, I've never been a fan of Zombies. I logged maybe 2 hours total in the original Black Ops & haven't even tried it yet on this one. As for quickscoping, I know it will still work, but with kills being deemphasized in objective game modes (I generally play domination) it doesn't seem like I'll run into it as often now. I may be wrong as a lot of these kids are just looking for clips to throw into their game file or You Tube montages, but it seems to me that it would make more sense for them to play TDM or Kill Confirmed now, where they'll be able to pull in some decent scorestreaks while they get their trick shots. We'll see if that ends up happening (in my 4 MP matches I ran into exactly one sniper, and he was sitting back & hard scoping his kills).
A game that sells for its MP can only be as positive as the experience allowed by it.
1.If you constantly have your console seizing up like a stroke victim... Thats not great..
2.If you are getting put on probation because the game is screwed up..that's not great...
3.Having to hard reset your system because the game..(refer to 1.)that's not good for any console, no matter how much Development Studio bandwagon riding a person wants to do.
Show some compassion and decency for people that are having a miserable time. This is the problem with the Community. If you have the same console as people that are having a troubled time such as now... Show some unity.. You never know when the boot will be on you.
I don't find that unique at all. Both Black Ops and MW3 did the same thing to my system for the first few weeks after release. It's been the number one reason why I've traded them in within the first month after release (of course only to buy them back at a later date, once the issues were resolved).
Actually, I have a very long....and I mean...LONG...list of new released games that have played havoc on my system for weeks/months after release.
Any Fallout title
Medal Of Honor
Just to name a few. I know there are more but their not popping in my head right now on only 2 hours sleep. I'm also sure there will be more to come....like:
Black Ops 3
and so on and so on. It's what I've come to accept with online multiplayer games I buy on release day or shortly after. Not that I like it, I've just accepted it as par for the course. After all, it's not like any developer can beta test for the amount of people who will be hitting the servers on release day. Even ones that have tried by giving open beta tests for months before release still are often unable to handle the unique problems that arise on release day.
Yes there too many complaints about this game. Now the freezing and stuff is understandable but will be work out. Now all the complaints about camping and weapons being too strong are just crybabies mad because they ruin there records be not playing smarter. This game by far is what fps mutiplayer should be
I've enjoyed the game overall. For the midnight release I played without too much hassle. A couple games that got stuck at the Need more players to balance teams... But nothing too horrible. Then Tuesday evening my PS3 froze multiple times and the lobbies wouldn't start many games (probably 10% of the time for me).
So I took a day off and came back on today, and I must say I had one freeze this morning but no issues at all since. The game has been playing perfectly for me (knock on wood). If this is the way this game will play from now on, I'll be completely satisfied.
If there's one gripe I still have, it's the spawn points. That's the one spot I disagree with you on. On TDM I just played a game earlier this evening where I got killed within 2 seconds of spawning FOUR times in a row (on Standoff). It has been rare for me, but still something that deserves a look at. By no means a dealbreaker for me though.
I play mainly Kill Confirmed and Domination, so I don't know about the spawns in other game modes very well. I can say that the spawns in Kill Confirmed are fantastic, and I don't think I've had one instance where some guy spawns directly behind me, an occurence that was common on MW3.
For Domination, what can you do? The spawns always suck on Domination. You get two caps and then spawntrap.
For those who are sitting out there complaining about lagging and can't just be a little patient, take these facts under consideration:
1) Treyarch is releasing a widely anticipated game only a short while after dealing with a Susper Storm, which caused massive flooding, city-wide evacuations and major power-outages.
2) The night it was release, as I waited in the back of the line (yes I was there at 12 A.M. to get my copy) I watched gamer after gamer leave the store at full sprint just to get home as soon as they could, just to play it, something I'm sure more and mroe people did all across the country.
3) Like all major game releases, many "hard-core" gamers actually take time off from work to play, meaning that besides having to break for the normal reason; eating, sleeping (some), bio breaks, these players kept the serves tied up for hours on end.
So, I say again, have a little patients. If it's such a hardship to wait a little while to play the game, by all means, play something else.
you make one point out of the three you stated :
the superstorm is not relevent, i dont recall Treyarch rescueing civillians trapped in their house nor did i see Treyarch heroically putting out fires!!! the game was already ready to go by the time SSS hit.
lots of people waited in line and your point is?
yes alot of hardcore gamers take time off work in anticipation of a big release, however Treyarch have hyped it up to 11 on the expectation scale, so when there are issues, many people will be dissappointed because treyarch have failed, which in my opinion, they have, this game is laggy, buggy and a step back.
I would not have been disappointed had treyarch not said they had listened to the gamer community , adding a button to mute other parties is a nice touch, but panic knifing is in here, the perks dont apppear to work, the colours are washed out and the sound is a joke.
I agree with you that only one of the points were relevant.
However I feel I must point out that you carried over one mistake that he originally made. 'Hardcore' player is not related to 'diehard' fan. Just because someone takes a day off work to get a newly released game they enjoy does not mean they are a 'hardcore' player...a diehard fan (or...dare I say it...fanboy) maybe.
I've come to believe that the term 'hardcore' takes on a different meaning in the COD world than elsewhere in the gaming world. It seems the term relates to the amount of time a person puts into the game or how much they like it, when speaking to COD players. Elsewhere in the gaming world, the term is related to the type or style of play...not how much a person likes the game or how much of their time they spend playing it. I've never found anything about any COD game to be anything 'hardcore'. Lots of Diehard fans maybe, but very few (and I mean very few) 'hardcore' players.
I guess the confusion probably has much to do with the ranking system in COD games. No matter how terrible a player is, they still gain rank by putting in the time. This leads to the (false) belief that time played = ability/skill/ or whatever you want to call it. I used to consider myself a hardcore player of games because I liked games that made me think out a well devised strategy. Now I consider myself a casual player, even though I put more time into a game, I rarely put any thought into strategy or tactics any more. I just don't take it very seriously any more...and my playercard will stand as evidence to that
Sandy knocked out power in many locations throughout the East Coast, including to the Black Ops servers, for several days. During a time in which Treyarch/Activision would have liked to be ironing out kinks & upgrading things for the BO2 release, they were instead having to pull in extra techs just to get the MP servers back online. So yes, the storm did affect things (particularly given that many of the bugs right now are on the server end).
If I had to guess, I'd wager that most (if not all) of the devs at Treyarch probably wanted a couple more weeks (at least) to test/refine the game before release, but since the date was set in stone and so many pre-order copies had been sold the corporate types wouldn't/couldn't give them the option of delaying it. Sad to say, but in today's gaming world most companies feel like they'd look worse if they delayed a title than they would in shipping out a horribly flawed version on time.
Eh, did you receive a different game than "us"?
What game-type are you playing? Did you try DOM?
Sure? There´s all similar Weapons to BO and MW3!
I do not give a **** about their look and what kind of bullets they are shooting - I´m just watching their performance and effectivity!
There´s the FN FAL again, now called FAL OSW - it sounds like the FN FAL, it´s as deadly - and with "Fire-Mode" pretty much the same than an ACR in MW3...
Go and play DOM in Peshawar, Yemen or in the Hollywood-Hills! Meet some camper-clans - and then repeat your opinion!
"Ghost" might be unlocked lately - but "Blind-Eye" is not!
BO2 has got twice more pure camping-spots than MW3 I guess! The maps are unlikely fit with wide places! There´re too many corners, dark corners, windows...
"Less Spawn killing"?
Are you serious? How many matches did you play yet? 1?
You can bet that on "Carrier", that enemies will spawn 100% right behind "A" - on the stairs at the edge of the carrier!
And: That´s just one example! I´ve been shot already so many times right in my back cause of Enemy-Spawn, that I can´t count any more!
Sure, I´ve been shot as much by Spwan-Campers while beeing spawned!
I´ve heared people in my Team (no one I know) talking about "let´s camp around the spawn-spots to win the match!" ....
And finally let´s talk about the "few bugs":
I am using my PS3 since 4 years now - no other game has frozen my PS3 that often than BO2 does!
No other game crashed in online-Lobbies that often than BO2 has done in it´s first 4 days already!
That´s not "a few tiny bugs" - that´s a mess!
You should mention, that Treyarch hasn´t changed the game-engine! So they are working on an code-platform they should know since over two years now!
Ok, Microsoft knows Windows now since 18 years and...
But: That´s NO excuse to bring a game to the stores that´s a POS!
Last but not least:
Why the **** has Activision dropped the Support-Chat?
They already earned a billion $ with BO2 - and now they are all on the run or what?
weapons: They are newish... what are you expecting? Laser beams and photon torpedoes? They are guns, and you can compare them to anything if you want to...
less camping: if someone is going to camp, it is their choice. True it is foolish to say there is less camping... but the fact is there are less perks to encourage it, less game bonuses to warranted it (like camping for nukes/moabs) and more ways to navigate to and around campers (not bashing camping, just saying)
Spawn killing: cannot say too much, but I did a FFA on NT2025... yeah you cannot spawn. Kill or be killed... went 25 and 25 (huh!?)
bugs: good golly! I think the game is great (too bad I cannot play it with my friends)
Weapons: Recoil has been drastically reduced across the board. Shotguns have been significantly improved to the point where it's no longer a handicap to carry one (if you use it correctly). Changing to an attachment-based "perk" system on weapons offers up a ton more customization/experimentation options for every player. You've even got a scope now which will see through walls! Not sure what you were expecting here, but guns are guns. I don't think adding a water pistol or something that shot spaghetti at your opponents would be an improvement.
Camping: I've made the point before, but there seem to be varying defintions of "camping". What is universally true now is that it's much more difficult to hide in camping spots since ghost and silencers are later unlocks and the better spots now have more ways to flank around them, and that even if you go to the effort you aren't going to be rewarded so much as the new scorestreak system rewards objective play much more than kills. Personally I've never had an issue with people who set up shop in a window overlooking a flag in domination, even with ghost & a silenced weapon, because that's just smart objective-based gameplay. My issue was with the idjits sitting in a random corner on the edge of the map waiting for someone to run by for the entire game...and that is what they fixed.
Spawn Killing: Agreed, the current spawn system needs an overhaul. But that's something they will patch up in the future, once they've fixed the bigger problems that are actually preventing people from playing the game at all.
Bugs: I don't game that much compared to many people on here; mainly just CoD and this is the first time I've tried playing a title right after release. I know that numerous, severe bugs were reported on previous CoD titles, again mainly on the PS3, shortly after release date as well.
As far as the game engine, yes it's the same one...but a ton of changes have been made to the servers in an effort to correct problems gamers had with other CoD titles, and that's where many of these bugs are coming from. I agree that's it's annoying, but it's understandable & not something they could easily have beta-tested away. If the end result is a better all-around game which we can enjoy fully by the time the Christmas noobs hit the lobbies, I'm okay with this.
Last but not Least: I haven't tried Support Chat since the first night, where it showed something like a 20-hour wait time & I didn't bother. But since the devs are all busy trying to fix this stuff & all support could really tell you is "We're aware of the problem & are working to solve it, please fill out this form to help us fix things faster!", it doesn't seem like much of a loss if it's offline completely. If anyone still wants answers like that, you can message Activision Support on Twitter...I think they've caught up to where they're responding to everyone within 12 hours now.
I agree, after playing a while for the past 2 days, I can say it's a great game. Once the freezing and menu skipping are dealt with, it will just be very little things. Spawns do need a bit of tweaking, but not by much because I hardly run into any trouble with it. Even the connection is better than I'm used to. Sure it might need a bit of tweaking here and there, but nothing big. The unnecesarry host migrations that sometimes pop up while I'm host and not leaving... meh, I can deal with it.
If anything, I've been having more fun than I've had in a long, long time when playing CoD.
Well I would hate to see what you call a major bug, I am not a hardcore gamer, i waited until 11/13/2012 until about noon to pick up my copy..... I knew there would be online problems the first few day, but i thought i can do the campaign mode ...I was wrong, i loaded the game let it update as prompted, .....only to have my system freeze up everytime the game would start loading, I never saw the game menu screen where it prompts you to push the start button until 11/14/2012.... finally late evening on 11/14/2012 .A magic elf came by a touched my machine and the game started working, ......and i could now play the campaign mode, but it wasnt until 11/15/2012 before i could do anything on multiplayer ....since then my online play has been good for 99% of the games, i havent locked up or had a system crash.... but i do see bugs that nned to be fixed, like sitting in a lobby with 12 randoms and the screen says waiting on more players to balance the game....but i know that is server overload problems, so i dont let that bother me.. game lag is an issue that worries me a bit, just because of MW3, but i am hoping that once the first few bugs are worked out it will get better also......Lag seems to at its worst if you are in a party, i dont feel it as much if i am playing solo
The Game play is good, .....But you claim camping is dead........dude i could not disagree more, every map i have been on has tons of corners, doorways, windows that offer plenty of camping places, now i know as we learn these new maps camping will be become harder and harder, but it will not die,
Run and gun players will have the hardest learning curve because of all the corners ect, in the maps
IMO the player who does not camp nor run and gun but moves with caution from one point to the other will have the best advantage once we all get to know the maps
I like the pick 10 system and i hate it also LOL .....deciding do i want lethal and tactials items, a secondary weapon.......or do i want more perks...... but again i think i will like it more and more as the learning curve becomes less and less,
You cannot kill camping
This game does make it easier to kill the camper
(not bashing camping, just saying)
Anyone can sit in a corner...gone are the days where someone can sit in a corner all game. Camping is not dead (and people who complain about campers are outright foolish) but everyone is going to have to be a bit more careful and watch their flank.
With that in mind, there is great opportunity for everyone at every level to improve their skills at the game if they so choose to realize the game is no longer catering to the window ADSer (using the term "skill" very loosely)
Sure, that claim is pretty wrong: No one can stop camping!
I do go further and say: BO2 provides camping more than people think right now!
Too many doorways, too many corners, too many hideouts that can be backed up with only one Claymore/Bouncing Betty/etc.!
You were also right saying that Run´n Gun-Players will have the steepest learning curve in BO2!
My eperience until now: BO2 slows you down - or you´ll die, die, die!
I´ve changed my playing-behaviour already - and my classes and perks (and I really like the 10 point-class-management!)...
While Run´n Gun in MW3 was "easy" - and moves were fast, BO2 is twice slower - or you need to make a compromize with an less deadly Weapon in your hands (I might be wrong...?!)...
Anyway: You need to watch so many corners, windows, stairs, levels, that "rushing the map" is quite deadly for you.
Maybe BO2 is more equalized now for every type of player. For the campers, run´n gunners and the noobs....
But: I doubt that until now! Let´s wait ´n see....
My experience has been great, except that I still have not had much success playing MP with my buddies. I hope it's fixed today for the Double XP weekend..... I can play by myself, but when you really want to win and don't care about anything else, it's better to have a team.
I've been playing tons of Zombies and part of the campaign to make up the lack of playability in MP and I am thoroughly impressed with all they did in Zombies. That could easily take up a huge chunk of my next year and I'd be happy, so for that BOii has won me over.
Overall the experience is good for me, this learning curve is fun. The Pick ten system is a genius idea and the difficulty of gaining powerful killstreaks is revolutionary!
The game has not been out a week and its living up to what I had hoped for in a video game! Good fights, balanced guns and most important my entertainment!
not everyone is having such experiences and I feel for those who are not...
It can be hard to separate the connection flaws with the actual game itself when one is having such a hard time playing in the 1st place.
When I play solo I have having a great time, and liking the game very much. Playing in a party is another story altogether.
The game has not been out a week and its living up to what I had hoped for in a video game! Good fights, balanced guns and most important my entertainment!
For the most part, I have the same feeling... hopefully things get better... for everyone.
This guy must be one of the few people who are actually having a good experience with BO2. MW3 had a much better debut than both BO1 and BO2 and to say otherwise is revisionist history. There is nothing revolutionary about BO2 as there was nothing revolutionary about MW3. They changed up things a bit on both games but they were fairly superficial. Regardless, neither was a revolution in FPS gaming and that is why MW3 start was much smoother for most people. They didn't rewrite the book so ther wasn't much to go wrong.
The in game graphics and gameplay in BO2 are just like BO1 from the gamers perspective, and the point in saying that is to argue that there shouldn't be so many issues with BO2 since it isn't all that different to BO1. Given the similarities in the game, MP should have been much smoother from day 1.
To say MW3 had just as many problems is complete BS IMO. Nobody I know had near the issues that everyone I know is having now. Just look at all the threads. I think once the game is fixed it will be good but it is more than "just a few bugs".
I have to say this game is rubbish, the worst game I've ever played, EVER!!!.
I just cannot get my head around it, every one seems to have modded pads, rapid fire all over the place, even with handguns, drop shot, that diving thing(wtf), people seem to magically run like the wind, can shoot you when they are not even there. The lag is awful, the glitching is awful, the maps are just too open, or too small (Nuketown wtf is with that map), spawnig is awful, CRASHING!!!! ect ect ect........
To be honest the only thing I like is the concept of the game, future weapons etc.
Modern warfare beats this game hands down, pacman in the 80's beats this lol its hard to find a game worse.
I'm still gonna try to keep playing to see if I can actually get a KD ratio above 1. Thats if my PS3 survives another crash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I've never had 1 game crash on me like this, until this game. So far I'm upto 18 crashes in 4 days, TDM also never seems to work, its always trying to find more players and balance teams, and just stays there.
To sum it up in one word "JOKE"
this game is actually really fun way better then mwf3 the servers itself maybe bad atm but what game hasnt been bad when first released its not just cod its every game that has been set up for online that has had major bugs when first released only way to fix something is pretty much break it from the start and best way to do that is let a **** ton of people online at once so then you can find all the problems and bugs. Nothings perfect they will fix it there good for that just need time.