29 Replies Latest reply on Jun 7, 2012 11:57 AM by opdrams19 RSS

    What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

      OK first off this isn't a thread to post about whats wrong with the game everybody already knows whats wrong. I'm just curious which one of the following two factors do you think resulted in more of the games short comings?


      Was it the firing of West and Zampella and the 45 members of the IW team (including lead designers and programmers) leaving behind a team that wasn't capable enough to produce the game we expected.


      Or do you think it was the involvement of  totally new development teams (Sledgehammer Games and Raven Software) to help co-develop themultiplayer experience.


      Me personally I think it was the fireing of West and Zampelle and the memers who left with them. You cant fire the studios president/lead designer/CEO and loose half of the team and still expect to put out a AAA title in the same timeframe that would of been expect if you didnt loose half of the devolpment team.

        • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

          Lack of time, losing your top developers & the lawsuit between ex-IW devs & Activision hurt MW3.


          When viewing the number of Game Designers, Animators & Software Engineers that were once IW developers & now part of Respawn Entertainment, you can understand why MW3 was underdeveloped & doesn't stand up to COD4 & MW2.




          Activision was more in a rush to develop MW3 than to innovate the MW franchise. If IW was given another year or even 6 months to develop MW3 , I think we would have expected a more polished COD title.

          • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

            just a one time bump cuz i made this thread late last night lol

            • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

              I think it's the involvement of Activision. They seem to ruin all their games.

              • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                Wow almost ALL those Respawn guys worked on MW2. I bet they will put out a pretty rad game when that time comes. MW2 is still (community douchebaggary aside) a great game 3 years later. Most times it runs better than MW3 with only a fraction of the player count.

                • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                  I think you guys have nailed the Lawsuit, Respawn Ent. Part, so i'm going to add a different layer or two:


                  Push to keep pace with functionality over quality:  Black Ops featured the ability to do online split screen, and that made it more accessible to lots of players.  IW was probably required (or wanted to in order to keep up) to implement split screen functionality into MW3 (as it was not an option in MW2 or COD4).  You can see the impacts of that within the reused textures, simple architecture, etc...Basically, to keep up with accessibility standards being set by Treyarch, I believe IW sacrificed a lot of what's important to the hardcore crowd, namely a sharp looking game that is at least an evolutionary leap ahead from the previous.  MW2 looks better then MW3, too, which is a huge shame.


                  So that's one additional note, and to add to what everyone has said above, it is obviously that sledgehammer's involvement and the time crunch led to much "borrowing" from Black Ops code.  That's why we see a lot of the nagging issues from that game in this one (lag issues, for example, the algorithms were ported, and adjusted of course, from BO I believe).  Other examples of that impact include the generally softer graphics (Black Ops pailed in comparison to MW2), and while I know this doesn't come up much, there is a clear difference between orchestral sound quality between MW2 and 3, as well as the complexity of in game sound.


                  To sum up, everyone says we got MW2.5...I say we got MW2: Black Ops addition.

                    • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                      It sounds like you just dislike Blackops. I honestly think it's because Infinity Ward is an inferior company/developer and cares more about the money than making a solid game or caring about the community. It's nice to see actual support from them for once, what litte there is of it.

                        • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                          No, Black Ops had a lot of features that made it unique, but the good stuff that made Black Ops unique isn't here.  What i'm saying is that for what they needed sledgehammer for, I believe it was also the stuff Sledgehammer has trouble optimizing.  If anything, i'd argue that inferior developers (Raven, Sledgehammer) stepped in to help a fledgling development house (IW), and when you put a time constraint on that, you have this product.


                          While everyone wants to make money, I dont think the problem was Infinity Ward's greed.  If you read a lot of the documents revealed during litigation, it's clear that these guys would have loved more time to create both MW2 and 3, but Activision wasn't having any of that.  If anything, that goes back to big daddy activision, which has been discussed pretty accurately by the previous posters.

                          • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                            One other note...it's clear Infinity Ward was pretty much forced to make MW3.  I would have much rather seen an original IP that they were passionate about.  We probably all would have bought it in droves.


                            That probably hurt most.

                        • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                          damnm my thread popped off into a good discussion today *sniffles* im so proud of it. lol


                          But yea, I don't personally think that they took any of Blackops coding and tweaking it for use with MW3 I dont believe IW and 3arc get along too well lol. As for the sound quality and over all looks of the game I think that came from the loss of alot of the original IW employees. I'm sure that somewhere in the huge chuck of people who left IW were some of the people who's job was making MW2 look good lol. When sledgehammer stepped in I believe that their design team took over the visual aspects of multiplayer as well as the audio and just didn't have the same skills as the IW employees.


                          Now as far as the person who said the problem was IW's greed, I dont think thats the case the greed comes from Activi$ion, IW was a great team but when they wanted to start working on stuff other then Activi$ions billion dollar cashcow they pulled some shady **** to get rid of the lead people of IW. Now I'm not lawyer in the case nor was i present when all this happened but the fact that so many people in IW WILLINGLY quit their jobs working on a billion dollar franchise after the heads of IW were cut off leads me to believe that Activi$ion was pulling some shady **** and nobody wanted to stick around and work for them after that.


                          Personally I think it clear that the modern warfare series (and probably Blops) has turned into nothing more then a money generating machine for them. I mean honestly look at the teams they pulled in to get the game out in time, Sledgehammer games was founded in 2009 and hadn't even FINISHED any games yet (they were working on a 3rd person COD then pulled onto MW3 to help Iw) Then look at ravens previous record (this is straight from Wiki) "A major layoff at the company occurred in August 2009 after the financial failure of X-Men Origins: Wolverine and the poor performance of Wolfenstein, followed by another in October 2010 after delays with Singularity."  IW picked a unknown game dev and one that has recently been having problems putting out quality titles or even titles on time. Now why did they pulled these two devs in to help IW out? I think its because they didnt want to delay their cash cow to give IW time to rebuild their team and properly polish MW3 so instead they toss these 2 (most likely easy to hire) Devs in the middle and say "ok play nice and have something that appears to be working by november"

                          • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                            you're pathetic...stop complaining. if the game is ruined for you then don't play, get out of the forums and act like an adult

                            • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                              Both hurt MW3, but what added to the pain was that Activision and IW were trying desperately hard to make it look like there was no big problems going on when MW3 was being promoted. They tried to say, "Hey, we're fine. Just get our game." And now look. The game is kaput.

                              • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                                First and foremost the fact that they push a new COD every year I'd rather wait for a more polished game/turd but they delayed Ghost Recon and it still has its issues. So with that said if they had spent more time in testing and releasing a Beta like COD4 it would help. Eventhough COD4 wasnt without bugs at least it was a quality game.


                                Second they need to stop catering to the "we want to make it easier for the casual gamer to pick up the game", they need to bring it back to COD4. Get rid of the extreme killstreaks and bring it back to 3, 5, 7


                                Third they need to start being innovative and not cookie cutter. CO-OP Campaign. After seeing E3 and what the new Halo 4 promises IW/Trearch are well behind the curve. This series of games has become stale.



                                • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                                  You really can't blame Activision even though they are money hungry.  IW agreed to put out one every two years and if they can't, it  falls on them.  These game developers have multiple teams to work on these projects, and if its not done, it should be the lead developers fault, not Activision.  Its like my work, we are assigned to have a set amount of steel go to GM and if its not, its the managers ass and makes the company look bad.  IW needs to use the manpower they have and use it right.  If the employees cannot do it, find new ones.


                                  If you watched the interview at E3 with the new THQ boss, he even said that the reasoning behind the failing games was that they were working on too many games at once.  They all need to hunker down on one game, then start a new one.  IW I bet already has another team working on a new CoD, but they should all be dedicated to sorting out the minor issues with this one. 

                                    • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                                      Its not that simple, IW was able to put out the game every two years and they were the only Dev working on MW2, but Activi$ion FIRED the lead people of IW and because of that shady deal like 30 or 40 IW team members left. Now when half of a dev team (many people lead designers and coders) up and leave in the middle of a project you cant expect a quality product in a small time frame, even when you bring in devs to help


                                      Imagine this you are your job and business has picked up ALOT, whats required of you and your entire company has drastically gone up but no extra time is given to get your job done, thats all fine and dandy you will just have to work very hard to get it done but its possible, NOW imagine right as your work load has increased and your half way through the day (or week i dont know how your job works) bosses visit and Fire all the management and half of your staff leaving mainly low level employees, then to fill the massive gap they bring in a bunch of in-experienced newbies who havent the slightest clue as to how your operation works. So now new managers must be trained to run the place at the same time a bunch of new employees need to be trained and shown how to do the job, and the only people there to do that training are low level employees that stayed with the company and while all this is going on you are STILL expected to put out the increased work load on time? It just isnt going to happen.

                                    • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                                      Robert bowling: "No more Last Stand" Oh! But we got something just like it, something where you hurt the enemy by shooting them in the face with your .50 cal, and then they just lay down and kill you. Then they get back up as if it never happened. Last stand wasn't the problem, at least you still got the kill your teammates didn't kill them.


                                      "No more Commando" But we have something worse than commando, it's called the FMGay9 akimbo's! Now you can play MW3 while your p*nis slowly shrivels up from using these terrible weapons.

                                      • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                                        I'm pretty sure the current staff at IW is equally talented compared to the now Respawn guys.  If you're in the gaming industry you'd know the pool of skilled employees is very small.  And most of the best are at these select developers.  I don't question their ability.


                                        But it's hard as hell to pick up where someone else left off and still finish something within a ridiculous deadline.  At that point it's basically battlefield triage where you have to save what you can. 


                                        To me MW3 is like a nice looking car that was poorly put together.  They took care of the cosmetic looking things so there'd be no blatant obvious errors.  But other things like lag, matchmaking, and spawns are a little harder to notice within that first month of release.  Which is why they got stunning reviews and sold a bagillion dollars back in November. 


                                        Now that we've all test drove the game, we can see all the problems, but all of us had to pay up front, so in essence, the IW bench squad succeeded in Activision's goal which is getting our money.

                                        • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                                          Call of Duty psychology sessions.

                                          It is ok let it all out.

                                          • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                                            I think it is all the developers leaving.  IW pushed out a product to meet a deadline.  As soon as I realized all the titles/emblems were the same as MW2, I knew there would be issues with this game.

                                            • Re: What do you think affected MW3 in a negative way more?

                                              As soon as they tried to get an unfinished game out by a deadline was when it was going downhill. If something isn't ready by the date you simply push it back holidays or not. This just showed people they can put out stuff like this and the fish still bite.