39 Replies Latest reply: Sep 8, 2013 4:34 PM by Jinx484 RSS

Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.

maccabi

Since the announcement of Dedi's coming to Cod for the Xbox one I have seen so many comments and posts spring up all over the place which ultimately have added alot of confusion and misinformation in to the community. So here is basically a run down of everything dedi related .

 

Xbox one

Is getting dedi's, These are being hosted by Microsoft using their "cloud" service Azure which has been linked into the XBL platform.. Microsoft have invested hundreds of millions into their cloud services over the last two years and have server farms located in strategically placed locations throughout the world with more coming online in the future. Azure is primarily a system that allows any company the ability to use an azure server for whatever they need, be it web hosting, distributedcomputing or in this case to host games.

To avoid going into technobabble, Azure comes with its own special operating system that can be implemented into existing applications or run as a layer over another system. This is why being able to utilize Azure for game servers on the xbox one is now possible.

Although Microsoft don't readily publicize where their servers are you can find out roughly using a quick search on the net, but please bear in mind not all locations are made public so as with anything on the net take any information as a rough guide not as 100% fact. Please see further down for more information in the dedis bullet points.

 

Infinity Ward had alot of meetings with the engineers from Microsoft about their cloud services, it wasn't an instant decision and honestly wasn't one Microsoft pushed onto Infinityward/Activision. I know when IW first started talking to the engineers from MS they were asking questions the engineers didn't even have answers to as their own systems weren't actually finalized. The final decision wasn't just oh there is dedis lets use them. IW really spent along time working out if it was both practical and something that wouldn't degrade the online experience we all know and love and would ultimately improve it for most people.

 

Pc

The pc platform is getting RANKED dedis at launch . Again as these are pc the servers will more than likely be hosted using the Azure system The option to RENT player controlled servers from a third party will be a feature possible AFTER launch (no date has been confirmed as yet ) but these will probably not be ranked servers. As Ghosts will have the ability to transfer your Character from one platform to another security of a closed system especially for PC is paramount.

 

 

More details of the pc stuff will be coming out shortly so make sure you follow @Infinityward on twitter.

 

 

PS4

At present Nothing has been announced either way for PS4, this is what it is. You should remind yourself the announcement for dedis on Xbox One was made at a Microsoft press event so obviously there would be no mention of anything ps4 related there. There have always been huge technical hurdles in getting dedis running for the console platforms something Microsoft has made a lot easier for Xbox one. Obviously for PS4 it isn't able to access Microsofts system so to run dedis on PS4 would involve a third party server provider or for Sony to stump up hundreds of millions of dollars to build their own server farms. I have seen recently alot of people taking about Sony's "cloud services" coming online in 2014 and wrongly assuming this relates to providing dedis- Their "cloud service" is Gaikai it is NOT a dedicated server platform it is a system designed to STREAM games being played on a server onto your screen. Gaikai will allow you to play older ps titles and to utilize the play anywhere service Sony promoted, but you should also bear in mind this service is streamed so it will have inherent latency issues attached to it as any control action has to go to the server first. This isn't to say Sony dont have a system in place already or that they aren't working on a system to host games As I explained adding dedis to Xbox one was a alot easier than for PS4 as the Xbox had a ready made system already in place due to microsofts Azure service.

I've seen a few comments along the lines of Atvi is too cheap to add dedis for PS4 ect (a comment I've seen numerous times in past cods tbh) The fact is the amount of infrastructure needed to host Cod on dedis costs hundreds of millions of dollars to build and then a good few million a month in operating costs, its not something you can just run out and buy . It's worth bearing this in mind .

 

So will PS4 have dedi's? At this point we don't know. Anything you hear that doesn't come directly from Infinity Ward is pure speculation so should be treated as such.

 

Dedis - the bendy bullet points

 

Will dedis cure lag? - Simple answer no.

 

People seem to think dedis are some sort of golden magical bullet that will cure every ill you experience online, this unfortunately isn't the case at all. What dedi's will bring to the table for consoles are things like no host migrations, from the dedis side a smooth experience that isn't affected by the the (as in old games) hosts own bandwidth causing issues. More security in game as the ability for the nefarious to run unsigned code as hosts on chipped xboxes is gone.

The one major issue with any online gaming experience is your ping, it doesn't matter how much bandwidth you have, how advanced your home network is ultimately your online experience if you have a stable connection is down to ping. Ping for those who aren't familiar with the term is the time it takes data to travel from your console/pc to a server and back.

One advantage listen servers (p2p as some call it) ie the system CoD has always used over dedis is host location, While the host may not always have been the best the chances are the host would've been quite close to you.

 

With dedi's it comes down to locations of the servers, The golden rule for dedis has always been the closer you are the better your ping is, while this maybe slightly generalized as a statement as there are other factors like your own connection quality ect this is how dedis usually work for players. Saying that though players on dedis will find their games run better and everyone will be a lot more equal as there is now no host advantage/disadvantage depending what side of the fence you were on that one.

 

One of the things IW would've looked at before deciding to go down the dedi route is server locations, if they couldn't provide locations that gave very good coverage they would not have gone down this route. BUT thats not to say at present all geographic locations will have great coverage. Some more outlying or low population area's will still potentionally have dedis depending on that area being covered by Azure. but you may find those servers are further afield than you would like to connect too and I would assume (*disclaimer this is an ASSUMPTION by me). That there would still be back up systems in the game to use listen servers for down times of dedis and for low pop areas or areas that are not covered by azure.

 

Matchmaking changes


One of the things that alot of people mention is matchmaking, and anyone who knows me from these forums knows it's an area I have clashed heads with IW over numerous times in the past . There has been a lot of work done on matchmaking and Ghosts will see a few new features added to matchmaking that will improve how matchmaking works. One of the most important ones for me (as its something I repeatedly highlighted) was the fact geolocation especially for european players had an inherent flaw . due to the way Ip blocks are bought and sold by european isps it was possible to be in the middle of the UK but the game thought you were in Italy. To counter this Ghosts will match make using your actual internet distance (and hops) rather than basing any matchmaking off your actual physical location. This will ensure players are better matched and potentially will be matched more locally. Iw trawled through a ton of connection metrics during MW3 and have taken a lot of feedback and comments from the community when it came to matchmaking. I spoke to Mark Rubin during my time out in La during E3 and I was very impressed with some of the idea's he and the team had either come up with or discussed.

 

Now the more astute of you here might now be wondering why if we are getting dedis on some platforms (ie the confirmed ones so far before the ps4 crowd go wait a minute..) why we still need matchmaking? - The answer is even with dedis the game still needs to place you into a session (game lobby) that gives you the best experience.

 

 

 


  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    biron_w

    Although I've moaned about dedi's only being on the X1(I won't go into PC as it's different to console gaming) it shouldn't really matter if IW get match making working properly.

    It worked fine in COD4 and MW2(I don't know about WAW as I didn't play it) and only started going downhill from BO1.

    I still think theatre caused some sort of lag issue so I'm glad that's gone.

     

    Really there shouldn't be any need for dedi's for a game that's only 12 players(or 18 for Ground War).

     

    If IW are going back to a system of basing match making on ping and location rather than region and skill then it should work fine in theory. Classing Europe as one massive player pool and then sticking people from all over Europe will NEVER work. Ever. Even on dedi servers you get lag, I know this as I get it on BF3.

     

    My only slight concern is what happens if the game runs fine on the X1 but runs like crap on other platforms? There will be a LOT of really unhappy players and, in my opinion, it will give the impression that Activision favoured MS and the X1 and don't give a sh*t about any other players.

     

    I'm really REALLY hoping this game works properly as I like COD. It's just that the last 2 games have put me and a lot of other players off the series because of the problems online.

    • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
      maccabi

      biron_w wrote:

      If IW are going back to a system of basing match making on ping and location rather than region and skill then it should work fine in theory. Classing Europe as one massive player pool and then sticking people from all over Europe will NEVER work. Ever. Even on dedi servers you get lag, I know this as I get it on BF3.

       

       

      Can I just clarify this in case heres any confusion , the flaw with geolocation matchmaking is inherent in the way geolocation works it's not due to anything Iw or 3arc have done. Geolocation works off of Ip addresses if those ip addresses are not correctly listed with an isp (as most dynamic ips are as they are bought wholesale in blocks) then its nigh on impossible without the changes IW have introduced to accurately place someone.

       

      Something else I should've mentioned Iw also spoke to alot of isps especially Europe as their policies for traffic management caused issues for online gaming.

      • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
        biron_w

        I'm aware of the geolocation problem. I believe you corrected me on it before And the traffic management thing is bloody annoying!

        I'm willing to give IW the benefit of the doubt here and giev them another chance.

        • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
          maccabi

          biron_w wrote:

           

          I'm aware of the geolocation problem. I believe you corrected me on it before And the traffic management thing is bloody annoying!

          I'm willing to give IW the benefit of the doubt here and giev them another chance.

          actually that was more of a clarification for anyone else reading the thread you know how many times I clashed with Iw over mw3 on the "hotfix" thread. Honestly I was very sceptical of Ghosts when it was announced, Having spoken to Iw both times I've been out to La now i can honestly say I have full faith in their ability to deliver something that will please the majority of us "fanbois with a dash of sceptism" . The stuff Mark mentioned when I was over for E3 really impressed me as it was obvious they had really taken on board all the feedback they had gotten from mw3 run. I think Drift0r made a video detailing some of that discussion as we were both part of it.

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    {bhc}max|co

    maccabi wrote:

     

    Since the announcement of Dedi's coming to Cod for the Xbox one I have seen so many comments and posts spring up all over the place which ultimately have added alot of confusion and misinformation in to the community. So here is basically a run down of everything dedi related .

     

     

    Pc

    The pc platform is getting RANKED dedis at launch . Again as these are pc the servers will more than likely be hosted using the Azure system The option to RENT player controlled servers from a third party will be a feature possible AFTER launch (no date has been confirmed as yet ) but these will probably not be ranked servers. As Ghosts will have the ability to transfer your Character from one platform to another security of a closed system especially for PC is paramount.

     

     

    More details of the pc stuff will be coming out shortly so make sure you follow @Infinityward on twitter.

     

     

     

     

     


    If its "unranked" dedis like were on mw3? then this game will fail on pc, i suspect even lower numbers that bo2 has , and they were lower than mw3's (which were an all time low for iw).

     

    Simply put.... the pc audience has left cod behind.

     

    This was due to p2p matchmaking and non clan friendly attitude by the devs , regarding servers or lack of them..

     

    The only way people will return is, a return of proper clan run ranked servers.. this is the only way for communities and clans to grow, and also for esports comps for Nooby clans.. ie using clanbase or twl..

    without proper server support cod is dead on pc..

    • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
      maccabi

      {bhc}max|co wrote:

       

      maccabi wrote:

       

      Since the announcement of Dedi's coming to Cod for the Xbox one I have seen so many comments and posts spring up all over the place which ultimately have added alot of confusion and misinformation in to the community. So here is basically a run down of everything dedi related .

       

       

      Pc

      The pc platform is getting RANKED dedis at launch . Again as these are pc the servers will more than likely be hosted using the Azure system The option to RENT player controlled servers from a third party will be a feature possible AFTER launch (no date has been confirmed as yet ) but these will probably not be ranked servers. As Ghosts will have the ability to transfer your Character from one platform to another security of a closed system especially for PC is paramount.

       

       

      More details of the pc stuff will be coming out shortly so make sure you follow @Infinityward on twitter.

       

       

       

       

       


      If its "unranked" dedis like were on mw3? then this game will fail on pc, i suspect even lower numbers that bo2 has , and they were lower than mw3's (which were an all time low for iw).

       

      Simply put.... the pc audience has left cod behind.

       

      This was due to p2p matchmaking and non clan friendly attitude by the devs , regarding servers or lack of them..

       

      The only way people will return is, a return of proper clan run ranked servers.. this is the only way for communities and clans to grow, and also for esports comps for Nooby clans.. ie using clanbase or twl..

      without proper server support cod is dead on pc..

      Right first off i totally understand where some of the pc community are coming from when it comes to rentable ranked dedis, BUT the fact remains as I have tried to explain Ghosts via Elite will have the ability to swap your character account between platforms (again more details about this will be released at later on) .

      As such you have to secure and protect all platforms as best you can, else you end up where pc which is historically the least secure platform giving players the ability to unlock everything and then transfer that character to say xbox one or ps4.

       

      I dont want to sound harsh but the fact is pc is the least played platform for CoD, and while there maybe alot of players online the other fact is many of those have got the game by means that didn't involve buying it. Pc is not secure. To tie rentable ranked clan servers into the system is just asking for troube imo.

       

      I totally get that alot of the pc community are 100% trust worthy and would admin their servers correctly but it just takes one bad egg to run a server to ruin it for everyone. We already have this issue on consoles especially this gen xbox where certian xboxes will run unsigned code that allows instant ranking and we all know te problems this has caused especially in the console community.

       

      The fact is nowadays pc isnt the open system i used to be there has to be some controls in place to protect all users of tha platform but again and I really cant stress this enough Past the information that has been released anything else is assumption and speculation. More details will be coming out of IW in the future and as such to dismiss something now with the smallest of information is just plain silly.

      • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
        {bhc}max|co

        i can understand the need for security and tying down certain features, but lets face it..

        mw2 (and mw3) just showed up how poor an experience cod can be on pc, this was due to bad lag/ host migrations/ un challenged hacking etc etc. (no ..removing dedi servers did not stop hacking).

         

        And those are the reasons why all of my clan didnt buy mw3 or bo2 ,

        those are the reasons why there are no mw2 /mw3/bo1/bo2 ladders on clanbase,

         

        and that will be the reason why pc figures are now so small..

         

        sounds to me like the devs have no respect for their small pc audiences ability to enjoy their game.. maybe its best they stopped making cods on PC. coz we are not getting the game we want.. so sales will be even lower..

      • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
        {bhc}max|co

        maccabi wrote:

         

        {bhc}max|co wrote:

         

        maccabi wrote:

         

        Since the announcement of Dedi's coming to Cod for the Xbox one I have seen so many comments and posts spring up all over the place which ultimately have added alot of confusion and misinformation in to the community. So here is basically a run down of everything dedi related .

         

         

        Pc

        The pc platform is getting RANKED dedis at launch . Again as these are pc the servers will more than likely be hosted using the Azure system The option to RENT player controlled servers from a third party will be a feature possible AFTER launch (no date has been confirmed as yet ) but these will probably not be ranked servers. As Ghosts will have the ability to transfer your Character from one platform to another security of a closed system especially for PC is paramount.

         

         

        More details of the pc stuff will be coming out shortly so make sure you follow @Infinityward on twitter.

         

         

         

         

         


        If its "unranked" dedis like were on mw3? then this game will fail on pc, i suspect even lower numbers that bo2 has , and they were lower than mw3's (which were an all time low for iw).

         

        Simply put.... the pc audience has left cod behind.

         

        This was due to p2p matchmaking and non clan friendly attitude by the devs , regarding servers or lack of them..

         

        The only way people will return is, a return of proper clan run ranked servers.. this is the only way for communities and clans to grow, and also for esports comps for Nooby clans.. ie using clanbase or twl..

        without proper server support cod is dead on pc..

        Right first off i totally understand where some of the pc community are coming from when it comes to rentable ranked dedis, BUT the fact remains as I have tried to explain Ghosts via Elite will have the ability to swap your character account between platforms (again more details about this will be released at later on) .

        As such you have to secure and protect all platforms as best you can, else you end up where pc which is historically the least secure platform giving players the ability to unlock everything and then transfer that character to say xbox one or ps4.

         

        So now that particular argument is void, what other reason can you give for PC NOT having clan run Ranked servers?

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    capp00

    Thank you for posting this info Mac. Clears up a lot of questions.

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    ChestSplittah

    If it is possible to get the game running even remotely as close to MW2... I'm cool without them. I'm not going to go all FAIL in the emotional department over the "bread buttering" that has been going on for years between ATVI and MS. Because in all reality, the constant disclosure of info for dedis has always been... ( as you have stated) is the financial burden for dedis for the entire population of the 360. This scenario now, isn't the 360. It is a low populated console for the time being.

     

    Yet, again thank you for finally using you hooked on phonics program..HAR HAR!!! Awesome and informative post as always, Pal.. Thanks again...

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    Submit2MyWill

    Having played lots of BF3 on dedicated servers in the US, I can tell you that the experience was night and day from older COD games in terms of experiencing lag, latency issues, matchmaking, and obviously, no hosts leaving mid-game (and please don't turn this into a COD vs. BF flame war).

     

    I think cautious optimism is always best for something I haven't personally tried, but I do have the utmost confidence that the online Ghosts experience on X1 will be wonderful.

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    highlandsparky

    Lots of interesting information....Thanks.

     

    Your post was even deserving of a mention from oneofswords .

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    RunAndGun1

    Thanks, maccabi!

     

    This is by far the most useful and productive post regarding Ghosts I've ever seen. Thank you for putting this together.

     

    This gives me hope for Ghosts. Personally, I have a lot more faith in IW. My experiences with COD has always been better when the title was from IW. BO1 had horrible lag on day one, but the lag seemed to be reduced over time. Whereas, BO2 has had horrible lag from day one and it continues to this day. If lag comp is adjustable, as some have said in these forums, then Treyarch has no excuse for the continued poor performance of BO2.

     

    I may not be able to get XB1 when Ghosts is released. But if my experience with Ghosts is any better then what I've experienced in BO2 then I will probably end up paying the $10 to upgrade to the XB1 version.

     

    Thanks again for your thorough presentation.

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    WolfRidge

    Great post, really easy to follow (kudos)

     

    I have a question for you:

     

    If the matchmaking is based more on router metrics, will it be possible that matches are mixed with some players using azure (local) and some using the old system (peer/listen)?

     

    Will there be conflicts between matchmaking and server location?

     

    Azure seems a great innovation, I hope we get something similar for PS4.

     

    If not I get on fine with the current system, I have a slow connection (rural) but it's smooth.

     

    I can just see the posts of the future about how someone lagged on a dedicated server, as you said it's not an answer to everything but a step in the right direction for COD.

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    ab36

    Just to clarify for those that aren't entirely sure, the One is getting the ranked dedicated servers also, right? Because that's probably one of the biggest things that people are spreading and it wasn't clearly noted for the One as you noted for the PC to get ranked servers.

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    mizanur

    Hi there Maccabi, thank you for your informative post and educating us about the perks of the Microsoft run Azure service. I assume this is an ATVI endorsed post.

    I wish to share my opinions about the situation and get responses. The Playstation user base does not expect MS to provide hosting solutions for their platform so what are their options? I fleshed out some ideas below and done some *** packet maths to get some ideas of the costs involved for dedicated servers. I could be wrong about this and by all means correct me if I am wrong. Thank you for reading.

     

     

    1.  Do nothing. Carry on using listen servers and elements of peer to peer.

    2. Activision pays for dedicated servers.

    3. Sony pays for dedicated servers.

    4. The Ps4 user base pays for dedicated servers.

     

    Option one, is not favorable to all parties including consumers due to the bad publicity this is going to generate and you could argue this is already happening. Also ATVI statements in the past say they are a platform agnostic company and this would be seen as going against that.

    Eric Hirshberg CEO - "Activision has historically been a platform agnostic company."

     

    Option two, is what I strongly believe is happening for the XB1. The special relationship between MS and ATVI is interesting from a price point. I am assuming MS didn't just suddenly give ATVI the thousands of servers to run XB1 COD: Ghosts.  So I am assuming ATVI are having to pay favorable prices. MS is a company I would expect them to make money on any service they provide.

    Lets say for arguements sake that ATVI were going to provide dedicated server support to the XB360. And lets say for arguments sake ATVI were just like a member of the public, Joe Bloggs and they were going to rent a game server for 12 months. The estimated cost to ATVI for rental of services is $4317600 ($4.3M per year). Also bear in mind that at launch so many servers will not be needed as my estimation are based on Xbox 360 install base playing COD Black Ops 2 on a daily basis.

    Now that $4.3 is based on *** packet maths based number of users typically online on the PS3 and with 20% added for extra users online for the 360 users. And ATVI are not going to be paying retail prices, they will be paying corporate prices for bulk purchases so the cost will be a lot less.

    * PS3 users online +300,000, (source PS3 BO2 MP menu dashboard)

    XB360 users 360000, extrapolated

    360,000 users /18 man slot servers = 20000 servers a month.

    20000 X $18 a server = $360,000 (example server provider http://www.nfoservers.com/order.php

    $360,000 X 12 months = $4,320,000 ($4.32M)

    No what is $4.32 M dollars to a company that makes hundreds of millions off the back of each COD title? For the quarter ended June 30, 2013, Activision Blizzard’s GAAP net revenues were

    $1.05 billion. Source http://investor.activision.com/index.cfm http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ACTI/2649153010x0x681465/ea54543c-8a45-48 fe-abe6-0b38e7bb3208/ATVI_Q2_Press_Release_with_Tables_FINAL.pdf

     

    Option three. What is around $4M to Sony with PS+ subscription revenue coming in? Not a lot. Sony will cough up and pay for dedicated servers.

     

    Option 4, is perhaps where the community pays for online services that they demand. The cost of the rental of a server to Joe Bloggs averaged out is $1 a month based on $18.00 a month for an 18 slot server. Now this bulk buying can lead to negotiated discounts so we are unlikely to have to pay $12.00 a year to go online.

    To play beyond one year buy a further online MP pass for all ATVI games or drop down to existing listen servers / p2p if you don't want that.

    • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
      maccabi

      mizanur wrote:

       

      Hi there Maccabi, thank you for your informative post and educating us about the perks of the Microsoft run Azure service. I assume this is an ATVI endorsed post.

       

      Honestly nope this was done entirely off of my own back . I just wanted to clarify a few things as I noticed alot of misinformation was gaining traction on various social media .

       

       

      mizanur wrote:

       

      I wish to share my opinions about the situation and get responses. The Playstation user base does not expect MS to provide hosting solutions for their platform so what are their options? I fleshed out some ideas below and done some *** packet maths to get some ideas of the costs involved for dedicated servers. I could be wrong about this and by all means correct me if I am wrong. Thank you for reading.

       

       

      1.  Do nothing. Carry on using listen servers and elements of peer to peer.

      2. Activision pays for dedicated servers.

      3. Sony pays for dedicated servers.

      4. The Ps4 user base pays for dedicated servers.

       

      Option one, is not favorable to all parties including consumers due to the bad publicity this is going to generate and you could argue this is already happening. Also ATVI statements in the past say they are a platform agnostic company and this would be seen as going against that.

      Eric Hirshberg CEO - "Activision has historically been a platform agnostic company."

       

      Option two, is what I strongly believe is happening for the XB1. The special relationship between MS and ATVI is interesting from a price point. I am assuming MS didn't just suddenly give ATVI the thousands of servers to run XB1 COD: Ghosts.  So I am assuming ATVI are having to pay favorable prices. MS is a company I would expect them to make money on any service they provide.

      Lets say for arguements sake that ATVI were going to provide dedicated server support to the XB360. And lets say for arguments sake ATVI were just like a member of the public, Joe Bloggs and they were going to rent a game server for 12 months. The estimated cost to ATVI for rental of services is $4317600 ($4.3M per year). Also bear in mind that at launch so many servers will not be needed as my estimation are based on Xbox 360 install base playing COD Black Ops 2 on a daily basis.

      Now that $4.3 is based on *** packet maths based number of users typically online on the PS3 and with 20% added for extra users online for the 360 users. And ATVI are not going to be paying retail prices, they will be paying corporate prices for bulk purchases so the cost will be a lot less.

      * PS3 users online +300,000, (source PS3 BO2 MP menu dashboard)

      XB360 users 360000, extrapolated

      360,000 users /18 man slot servers = 20000 servers a month.

      20000 X $18 a server = $360,000 (example server provider http://www.nfoservers.com/order.php

      $360,000 X 12 months = $4,320,000 ($4.32M)

      No what is $4.32 M dollars to a company that makes hundreds of millions off the back of each COD title? For the quarter ended June 30, 2013, Activision Blizzard’s GAAP net revenues were

      $1.05 billion. Source http://investor.activision.com/index.cfm http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ACTI/2649153010x0x681465/ea54543c-8a45-48 fe-abe6-0b38e7bb3208/ATVI_Q2_Press_Release_with_Tables_FINAL.pdf

       

      Option three. What is around $4M to Sony with PS+ subscription revenue coming in? Not a lot. Sony will cough up and pay for dedicated servers.

       

      Option 4, is perhaps where the community pays for online services that they demand. The cost of the rental of a server to Joe Bloggs averaged out is $1 a month based on $18.00 a month for an 18 slot server. Now this bulk buying can lead to negotiated discounts so we are unlikely to have to pay $12.00 a year to go online.

      To play beyond one year buy a further online MP pass for all ATVI games or drop down to existing listen servers / p2p if you don't want that.

       

      I see where you're coming from here and it's an arguement that alot of people have put forward over the years,

      First off your math is way off , to provide dedis for a platform you have to make sure you have enough servers to cover all gamemodes just not players. So you have to have enough servers to cover core, hardcore and what other type of modes the devs add.

      Secondly the numbers you quoted while accurate to who is online at one point dont accurately reflect the unique users on each plaform a day this number is in the millions.

      Thirdly you have to account for timezones.. 300k online at a certian time would be peak in one location so you have to allow for peak times in europe,usa and the rest of the world and then an equal number for each platform. also you cant just assume they would be 18 man servers most game modes are designed for 12 players.

       

      Going into ps specifics , theres technical issues to overcome, platforms are usually closed systems so you need to allow them to access third party server centres this includes special code and systems to matchmake ect. While it may seem as a simple as phoning up a hosting company you have to bear in mind saying hi we want 50000 servers around the world isnt something most server companies could do without some major outlay.

    • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
      Submit2MyWill

      mizanur wrote:

       

      Hi there Maccabi, thank you for your informative post and educating us about the perks of the Microsoft run Azure service. I assume this is an ATVI endorsed post...

       

      SNIP

      Sony and MS cannot be compared as apples to apples with regard to next-gen consoles and each company's cloud purposes. Sony's cloud, as far as I know, is 9000 servers and is oriented around streaming PS1/PS2/PS3 games. As far as I've read, it is not designed for multiplayer video game hosting.

       

      MS's cloud, at 300,000 servers, is built around hosting multiplayer matches (for companies that opt to do so/pay) and for computation of AI and other such processing capabilities that can be done off of the console.

       

      With this in mind, I honestly doubt either Sony or Activision would pony up the cash for dedis. From what I've heard, it is extremely costly (way above $4 million) and though Activision could easily afford it, why would they pay for it when they can just continue to use the same system they've used for multiple games now for free?

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    rlbl

    Thanks Macc...

     

    Question though (and you know what it is): is there any concrete information yet as to whether the dedis for the console are ranked or not; and if such information exists, can you point us to it?

     

    There may not information available at this point, and I understand that so an answer of "no" is not a bad thing and people should not be swayed by that.

     

    (note I did not ask if they are ranked or not, I asked if there is concrete information on the status... and not the status itself as I believe there have been no definitive statements about it... yet)

     

    - and even though I am still leaning towards the PS4 (as my decisions are not based on COD alone), I seriously hope they are ranked for the good of the game (and it could possibly cuse me to sway )

    • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
      maccabi

      rlbl wrote:

       

      Thanks Macc...

       

      Question though (and you know what it is): is there any concrete information yet as to whether the dedis for the console are ranked or not; and if such information exists, can you point us to it?

       

      There may not information available at this point, and I understand that so an answer of "no" is not a bad thing and people should not be swayed by that.

       

      (note I did not ask if they are ranked or not, I asked if there is concrete information on the status... and not the status itself as I believe there have been no definitive statements about it... yet)

       

      - and even though I am still leaning towards the PS4 (as my decisions are not based on COD alone), I seriously hope they are ranked for the good of the game (and it could possibly cuse me to sway )

      I answered in the other post but i'll see if i can get Iw to say for definate as there is alot of confusion around about this

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    {bhc}max|co

    maccabi wrote:

     

    Since the announcement of Dedi's coming to Cod for the Xbox one I have seen so many comments and posts spring up all over the place which ultimately have added alot of confusion and misinformation in to the community. So here is basically a run down of everything dedi related .

     

     

     

    Pc

    The pc platform is getting RANKED dedis at launch . Again as these are pc the servers will more than likely be hosted using the Azure system The option to RENT player controlled servers from a third party will be a feature possible AFTER launch (no date has been confirmed as yet ) but these will probably not be ranked servers. As Ghosts will have the ability to transfer your Character from one platform to another security of a closed system especially for PC is paramount.

     

     

    More details of the pc stuff will be coming out shortly so make sure you follow @Infinityward on twitter.

    So we already know security was inept on mw2 and mw3, we also know character migration between pc and consoles WONT happen... can we NOW have  a return of clan run RANKED servers on #Ghosts ? if not, why not?

    • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
      maccabi

      {bhc}max|co wrote:

       

      maccabi wrote:

       

      Since the announcement of Dedi's coming to Cod for the Xbox one I have seen so many comments and posts spring up all over the place which ultimately have added alot of confusion and misinformation in to the community. So here is basically a run down of everything dedi related .

       

       

       

      Pc

      The pc platform is getting RANKED dedis at launch . Again as these are pc the servers will more than likely be hosted using the Azure system The option to RENT player controlled servers from a third party will be a feature possible AFTER launch (no date has been confirmed as yet ) but these will probably not be ranked servers. As Ghosts will have the ability to transfer your Character from one platform to another security of a closed system especially for PC is paramount.

       

       

      More details of the pc stuff will be coming out shortly so make sure you follow @Infinityward on twitter.

      So we already know security was inept on mw2 and mw3, we also know character migration between pc and consoles WONT happen... can we NOW have  a return of clan run RANKED servers on #Ghosts ? if not, why not?

      That information was correct when I posted it, as you pointed out it now isn't in realtion to walled garden console platforms. But as to your question you answered it yourself, security a point I already mentioned anyways clan run ranked servers would not be secure. I would also like to point out nothing has been announced in relation to what exactly will be offered so any discussion on the subject would be hypothetical at this stage.

      • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
        {bhc}max|co

        maccabi wrote:

         

        {bhc}max|co wrote:

         

        maccabi wrote:

         

        Since the announcement of Dedi's coming to Cod for the Xbox one I have seen so many comments and posts spring up all over the place which ultimately have added alot of confusion and misinformation in to the community. So here is basically a run down of everything dedi related .

         

         

         

        Pc

        The pc platform is getting RANKED dedis at launch . Again as these are pc the servers will more than likely be hosted using the Azure system The option to RENT player controlled servers from a third party will be a feature possible AFTER launch (no date has been confirmed as yet ) but these will probably not be ranked servers. As Ghosts will have the ability to transfer your Character from one platform to another security of a closed system especially for PC is paramount.

         

         

        More details of the pc stuff will be coming out shortly so make sure you follow @Infinityward on twitter.

        So we already know security was inept on mw2 and mw3, we also know character migration between pc and consoles WONT happen... can we NOW have  a return of clan run RANKED servers on #Ghosts ? if not, why not?

        That information was correct when I posted it, as you pointed out it now isn't in realtion to walled garden console platforms. But as to your question you answered it yourself, security a point I already mentioned anyways clan run ranked servers would not be secure.

        Security? what security there hasn't been, and never will be, a 100% fullproof security on any game on pc.. yet this was the major reason for taking away clan run servers..and forcing us into matchmaking to iwnet, remember last 2 iw's  cods were plagued by haxors from day1,  even worse than in the days before clan ranked servers.(at least then admins could kick/ban obvious haxors, ie aimbots etc and report em to punkbuster with evidence from logs/screenshots/demos) ..what has happened is now we cant find servers we know that are

        1) low ping,

        2) well admined ,

        3) run gametype and maps we prefer..

        To properly enjoy a cod on pc we should have the choice to matchmake or server search. its that simple.

        anything else is a "that'll do" non fix from the devs.. leaving all us honest pc players at the mercy of hackers.

        I'd rather have hackers getting insta banned on a server I like, than my gaming pleasure being ruined by haxors I repeatedly run into time after time on matchmaking lobbys

        • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
          maccabi

          {bhc}max|co wrote:

           

          maccabi wrote:

           

          {bhc}max|co wrote:

           

          maccabi wrote:

           

          Since the announcement of Dedi's coming to Cod for the Xbox one I have seen so many comments and posts spring up all over the place which ultimately have added alot of confusion and misinformation in to the community. So here is basically a run down of everything dedi related .

           

           

           

          Pc

          The pc platform is getting RANKED dedis at launch . Again as these are pc the servers will more than likely be hosted using the Azure system The option to RENT player controlled servers from a third party will be a feature possible AFTER launch (no date has been confirmed as yet ) but these will probably not be ranked servers. As Ghosts will have the ability to transfer your Character from one platform to another security of a closed system especially for PC is paramount.

           

           

          More details of the pc stuff will be coming out shortly so make sure you follow @Infinityward on twitter.

          So we already know security was inept on mw2 and mw3, we also know character migration between pc and consoles WONT happen... can we NOW have  a return of clan run RANKED servers on #Ghosts ? if not, why not?

          That information was correct when I posted it, as you pointed out it now isn't in realtion to walled garden console platforms. But as to your question you answered it yourself, security a point I already mentioned anyways clan run ranked servers would not be secure.

          Security? what security there hasn't been, and never will be, a 100% fullproof security on any game on pc.. yet this was the major reason for taking away clan run servers..and forcing us into matchmaking to iwnet, remember last 2 iw's  cods were plagued by haxors from day1, 

          Again you're just frthering the point im making, look I totally get your point of view here and i'm not disagreeing with you but end of the day you're looking at it on a micro level whereas the devs look at things on a macro level..

           

          just because you may not allow dodgy people onto your server doesn't mean one of the untold less than honest websites/clans/players wouldnt or wouldnt rent a ranked server just to exploit the game.

           

          Again you're discussing hypotheticals here as we still don't know what the plans are for pc but again I would point out unlike previous cods pc is linked to elite this time and yes while we now dont know if profile transfer between platforms and pc will still be possible the fact your rankings are logged by elite means security is a concern.

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    Dr_QuiCKScOP3r

    Mac, it there a list of cities with dedicated servers? I would like to know if I live close to a server. Thanks.

    • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
      zvers

      I'm north of Chicago and we have a huge MS cloud center right by O'hare airport. This is why I have been pondering more and more about switching from PS to xbox. If this does improve experience because of the cloud tech, why not? Especially if you have to pay to play on next gen.

    • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
      maccabi

      Dr_QuiCKScOP3r wrote:

       

      Mac, it there a list of cities with dedicated servers? I would like to know if I live close to a server. Thanks.

      microsoft dont relase the location of their server farms sorry

      and while theres lists on the net for where azure server farms are this doesnt automatically mean they are thunderdome (the xbl system)  enabled

      • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
        Dr_QuiCKScOP3r

        Thanks for the reply. I am on the fence on which platform I will play on but I think I'll be on XB1. I'm from Toronto and I'm hoping the closest server should be in NY city if they don't have one here.

         

        One more thing, Mac...

         

        I know you played Ghosts and you the game was running on PCs that emulates the XB1, was the aim assist enabled on the machine or was it off?

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    Darthmullet

    It's time they evolve their ranked / unranked system. Ladder rankings and character progression need to be separate. I understand why special-rules / clan hosted servers shouldn't be on (at least the same) ranking ladders as anything-goes servers, but don't make it that unranked no xp crap. Should have the same unlocks and prestige system etc. As going through the progression is a huge part of the enjoyment of the game.


    Perhaps it would be better if they didn't merge the platforms, but regardless I would say getting XP is faster on normal servers than specialty crouch-only etc. servers so IMO it is a moot point. At the very, very least make separate progression lines for ranked and unranked servers, but allow that XP and leveling process still be there in some form - even though this is a hard blow to a crouch only clan for example, if a player wants to try out other server styles and has to start from scratch.


    Leveling if fun but by no means difficult, so I honestly don't see why someone should get their panties in a wad about people playing the system to level faster on one platform and then switch to another. I could see maybe right at launch, but they're saying rentable dedis wont be available right at launch anyway so where is the problem?

  • Re: Dedis - Matchmaking - Just the facts ma'am.
    Jinx484

    maccabi wrote

    What dedi's will bring to the table for consoles... from the dedis side a smooth experience that isn't affected by the the (as in old games) hosts own bandwidth causing issues.


     

    And

    maccabi wrote:

    To counter this Ghosts will match make using your actual internet distance (and hops) rather than basing any matchmaking off your actual physical location.

    This (which may be of secondary importance as I live in a congested US area).

     

    These make me slightly (but still very cautiously) optimistic that lag issues will be reduced.