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  • 90. Re: Bring back diversity
    iivrruummii

    r8edtripx wrote:

     

    Anyway, as this thread progressed there was talk about how in the quest to kill camping, the tactical playstyle took a hit.

    Yes, we've all said, there will always be campers and this didn't make them go away. No, it didn't, but it did hurt them. It's now more like things should be as far as campers are concerned. Camp, hide and be scared to come out and take the risk of exposing yourself, at the price of giving up stealth. That is FAIR. Risk/Reward.

    Giving campers their stealth back doesn't add diversity. Giving TRUE tactical players their stealth back, on the other hand, could very well add diversity.

    So give STEALTH players full immunity, but not if you're using STEALTH and CAMPER interchangeably. (It seems like you are)

    Agreed.  Campers shouldn't get rewarded by hiding from UAVs and everything ingeneral.  If there was a risk for camping then everyone would keep on doing it.

  • 91. Re: Bring back diversity
    scotland-rules

    r8edtripx wrote:

     

    scotland-rules wrote:

     

    r8edtripx wrote:

     

    scotland-rules wrote:

     

    Well in my eyes that's:

     

    A, Denying the enemy an access route to the objective

    B. Supporting my team

    C. Pissing off the enemy (my added fun)

     

    If you want to classify that as camping then be my guest...

    All these are definitely a part of camping, but... What I feel would be the determining factor of whether it's camping or not, is the 10 second rule. In this back-and-forth we've had, I've thought about how long a tactical player should need for the Ghost perk to work in order for his playstyle to have a better experience, without considering him a camper; I feel 10 seconds is the cut-off point.

     

     

    This thread is about the players between the campers and run-n-gunners being affected by the Ghost perk, the Tactical Players, right?

     

     

    So I ask you...

     

    How many seconds do you feel the cut-off should be?

     

    The section in bold is what I'm reply too because the rest of your post is only going to lead to a pointless debate. You're wrong all counts about what this thread is. This thread is about bringing back diversity and giving ALL players and equal opportunity to play how they want. Yes you're right to an extent, this thread is about that but it's about more than just that though. 

     

    A ghost perk and what it does means little to me unless we have the following:

     

    Bigger maps - Maps in Black Ops 2 are tiny

    Better Spawns --> This one will be determined by how the map sizes are.

    Better weapon Balance --> Between all teirs, black ops 2 ruled with SMGs mostly

    Create a class/weapon building system.

     

    A ghost perk means jack Sh*t in the long run if these aren't correct. Quite frankly if you ask me would I prefer Ghost to be like it was in other CoDs I'd answer yes and heres why:

     

    I've had the best diverse experience within the previous CoDs where Ghost has been whole. Think about it all previous Games from Black Ops 1 down to CoD4 have had this perk and they've been diverse and interesting, sure campers are going to camp.

     

    But I ask you, is one perk really going break a game, when its been successful in all previous games except this one? They changed it in Black Ops 2 and it ruined an entire playstyle and still kept the one in which they wanted to destroy which is camping.

     

    Why take that risk in shifting the balance of power?

     

    Run and Gunners don't need radar to be successful, Stealth Players need immunity, full immunity to be successful in their playstyle.

     

    Answering what you feel would be a good cut-off for an "improved" Ghost perk would definitely get people talking and would be too telling of where you feel the tactical playstyle ends and camping begins. It could weaken many of your comments in this thread, so I guess I understand you side-stepping the question. (Please don't ask, "how could it weaken?" Answer the question and find out.)

     

     

     

    Anyway, as this thread progressed there was talk about how in the quest to kill camping, the tactical playstyle took a hit.

    Yes, we've all said, there will always be campers and this didn't make them go away. No, it didn't, but it did hurt them. It's now more like things should be as far as campers are concerned. Camp, hide and be scared to come out and take the risk of exposing yourself, at the price of giving up stealth. That is FAIR. Risk/Reward.

     

     

    Giving campers their stealth back doesn't add diversity. Giving TRUE tactical players their stealth back, on the other hand, could very well add diversity.

     

    So give STEALTH players full immunity, but not if you're using STEALTH and CAMPER interchangeably. (It seems like you are)

     

    The reason I'm not answering your seconds question is because its stupid. We are turning a simple perk into something that we need to count down and for hardcore it would be impossible other than counting down to know if your ghost was active or not because we don't get the triangle notification or mini map (unless we ourselves have UAV up). Second of all counting down a perk is just too complicated. In my opinion what we need to do is something we haven't done since probably Modern Warfare 2/Black Ops 1

     

    In Black Ops 1 you had very powerful perks in teir 1

     

    You had: Scavanger, Hardline, Flak Jacket, Ghost

     

    Lightweight, used in rushing a lot and was a very popular perk

    Scavenger was near essential on many SMG loadouts and was a very powerful perk - It made people choose

    Hardline was the under dog perk but on launch many people loved getting an RCXD in two kills - Hardline has never seen too much action.

    Flak Jacket - The only explosive that would manage to kill you was the carpet bomb airstrike, you were near immune to explosives and fire. Even on Hardcore you could take two claymores and a Grande.

    Ghost - Immune to UAV and Killstreaks except the BlackBird

     

    Again MW2 Lightweight, Used often in rushing builds

    Stopping Power - Extra Bullet Damage People on core loved this perk, in fact this was over used to a large extent.

    Hardline - It was used because it was new but people quickly passed on it unless they wanted to take advantage of the stacking killstreaks.

    Cold Blooded, same as ghost but without the 8 killstreak weakness .

    Danger Close - Extra Damage with explosives and then airstrikes.

     

    The point of this is, in those games we had powerful perks which made choosing one hard. In MW3 we didn't I'll admit that up front, however what we need to do is have a few counters to ghost and good competition.

     

    Some of the counters could be, Heartbeat sensor, Thermal, Killstreaks - all types, so basically you're open to killstreaks including a blackbird type one.

     

    Then offer serious competition so choosing ghost is hard option, do what we did in Black Ops 1 and MW2 give serious competition.

     

    By the I agree with splitting ghost into two perks. I'm only suggesting we have immunity to radar with ghost and then the pro could be "No red letters whe targeted".

     

    In my opinion some attachment counters, killstreak counters and serious competition in the perk category would change make the game balanced.

  • 92. Re: Bring back diversity
    r8edtripx

    scotland-rules wrote:

     

    r8edtripx wrote:

     

    scotland-rules wrote:

     

    r8edtripx wrote:

     

    scotland-rules wrote:

     

    Well in my eyes that's:

     

    A, Denying the enemy an access route to the objective

    B. Supporting my team

    C. Pissing off the enemy (my added fun)

     

    If you want to classify that as camping then be my guest...

    All these are definitely a part of camping, but... What I feel would be the determining factor of whether it's camping or not, is the 10 second rule. In this back-and-forth we've had, I've thought about how long a tactical player should need for the Ghost perk to work in order for his playstyle to have a better experience, without considering him a camper; I feel 10 seconds is the cut-off point.

     

     

    This thread is about the players between the campers and run-n-gunners being affected by the Ghost perk, the Tactical Players, right?

     

     

    So I ask you...

     

    How many seconds do you feel the cut-off should be?

     

    The section in bold is what I'm reply too because the rest of your post is only going to lead to a pointless debate. You're wrong all counts about what this thread is. This thread is about bringing back diversity and giving ALL players and equal opportunity to play how they want. Yes you're right to an extent, this thread is about that but it's about more than just that though. 

     

    A ghost perk and what it does means little to me unless we have the following:

     

    Bigger maps - Maps in Black Ops 2 are tiny

    Better Spawns --> This one will be determined by how the map sizes are.

    Better weapon Balance --> Between all teirs, black ops 2 ruled with SMGs mostly

    Create a class/weapon building system.

     

    A ghost perk means jack Sh*t in the long run if these aren't correct. Quite frankly if you ask me would I prefer Ghost to be like it was in other CoDs I'd answer yes and heres why:

     

    I've had the best diverse experience within the previous CoDs where Ghost has been whole. Think about it all previous Games from Black Ops 1 down to CoD4 have had this perk and they've been diverse and interesting, sure campers are going to camp.

     

    But I ask you, is one perk really going break a game, when its been successful in all previous games except this one? They changed it in Black Ops 2 and it ruined an entire playstyle and still kept the one in which they wanted to destroy which is camping.

     

    Why take that risk in shifting the balance of power?

     

    Run and Gunners don't need radar to be successful, Stealth Players need immunity, full immunity to be successful in their playstyle.

     

    Answering what you feel would be a good cut-off for an "improved" Ghost perk would definitely get people talking and would be too telling of where you feel the tactical playstyle ends and camping begins. It could weaken many of your comments in this thread, so I guess I understand you side-stepping the question. (Please don't ask, "how could it weaken?" Answer the question and find out.)

     

     

     

    Anyway, as this thread progressed there was talk about how in the quest to kill camping, the tactical playstyle took a hit.

    Yes, we've all said, there will always be campers and this didn't make them go away. No, it didn't, but it did hurt them. It's now more like things should be as far as campers are concerned. Camp, hide and be scared to come out and take the risk of exposing yourself, at the price of giving up stealth. That is FAIR. Risk/Reward.

     

     

    Giving campers their stealth back doesn't add diversity. Giving TRUE tactical players their stealth back, on the other hand, could very well add diversity.

     

    So give STEALTH players full immunity, but not if you're using STEALTH and CAMPER interchangeably. (It seems like you are)

     

    The reason I'm not answering your seconds question is because its stupid. We are turning a simple perk into something that we need to count down and for hardcore it would be impossible other than counting down to know if your ghost was active or not because we don't get the triangle notification or mini map (unless we ourselves have UAV up). Second of all counting down a perk is just too complicated. In my opinion what we need to do is something we haven't done since probably Modern Warfare 2/Black Ops 1

    Because it's stupid? That's a cop-out.

     

    After all this back-and-forth I've come to the conclusion that you're a camper.

     

    So, all I'm saying is that, if someone wants to camp, go for it. I just don't want campers to have stealth; they don't desrve it.

     

     

     

    Again, I'm cool with the TRUE tactical players having complete stealth, and a system where one has 10 solid seconds to do their thing before moving again is one that would help those players that are stuck in that in-between ground where they aren't camping, but not running and gunning either.

  • 93. Re: Bring back diversity
    rankismet

    There is a risk to camping... it's called...

     

    ... a grenade.

    ... a toob.

    ... bullets.

    ... and being entirely ignored.

     

    I will never... ever... understand the need for everyone to be freakin' dot or somehow the game is broken perspective.

     

     

     

    Best thing Ghosts could do is remove the mini-map entirely.

  • 94. Re: Bring back diversity
    surridge1990

    One of the best suggestions ive heard, then there'll be no need for a ghost perk at all

  • 95. Re: Bring back diversity
    scotland-rules

    r8edtripx wrote:

     

    scotland-rules wrote:

     

    r8edtripx wrote:

     

    scotland-rules wrote:

     

    r8edtripx wrote:

     

    scotland-rules wrote:

     

    Well in my eyes that's:

     

    A, Denying the enemy an access route to the objective

    B. Supporting my team

    C. Pissing off the enemy (my added fun)

     

    If you want to classify that as camping then be my guest...

    All these are definitely a part of camping, but... What I feel would be the determining factor of whether it's camping or not, is the 10 second rule. In this back-and-forth we've had, I've thought about how long a tactical player should need for the Ghost perk to work in order for his playstyle to have a better experience, without considering him a camper; I feel 10 seconds is the cut-off point.

     

     

    This thread is about the players between the campers and run-n-gunners being affected by the Ghost perk, the Tactical Players, right?

     

     

    So I ask you...

     

    How many seconds do you feel the cut-off should be?

     

    The section in bold is what I'm reply too because the rest of your post is only going to lead to a pointless debate. You're wrong all counts about what this thread is. This thread is about bringing back diversity and giving ALL players and equal opportunity to play how they want. Yes you're right to an extent, this thread is about that but it's about more than just that though. 

     

    A ghost perk and what it does means little to me unless we have the following:

     

    Bigger maps - Maps in Black Ops 2 are tiny

    Better Spawns --> This one will be determined by how the map sizes are.

    Better weapon Balance --> Between all teirs, black ops 2 ruled with SMGs mostly

    Create a class/weapon building system.

     

    A ghost perk means jack Sh*t in the long run if these aren't correct. Quite frankly if you ask me would I prefer Ghost to be like it was in other CoDs I'd answer yes and heres why:

     

    I've had the best diverse experience within the previous CoDs where Ghost has been whole. Think about it all previous Games from Black Ops 1 down to CoD4 have had this perk and they've been diverse and interesting, sure campers are going to camp.

     

    But I ask you, is one perk really going break a game, when its been successful in all previous games except this one? They changed it in Black Ops 2 and it ruined an entire playstyle and still kept the one in which they wanted to destroy which is camping.

     

    Why take that risk in shifting the balance of power?

     

    Run and Gunners don't need radar to be successful, Stealth Players need immunity, full immunity to be successful in their playstyle.

     

    Answering what you feel would be a good cut-off for an "improved" Ghost perk would definitely get people talking and would be too telling of where you feel the tactical playstyle ends and camping begins. It could weaken many of your comments in this thread, so I guess I understand you side-stepping the question. (Please don't ask, "how could it weaken?" Answer the question and find out.)

     

     

     

    Anyway, as this thread progressed there was talk about how in the quest to kill camping, the tactical playstyle took a hit.

    Yes, we've all said, there will always be campers and this didn't make them go away. No, it didn't, but it did hurt them. It's now more like things should be as far as campers are concerned. Camp, hide and be scared to come out and take the risk of exposing yourself, at the price of giving up stealth. That is FAIR. Risk/Reward.

     

     

    Giving campers their stealth back doesn't add diversity. Giving TRUE tactical players their stealth back, on the other hand, could very well add diversity.

     

    So give STEALTH players full immunity, but not if you're using STEALTH and CAMPER interchangeably. (It seems like you are)

     

    The reason I'm not answering your seconds question is because its stupid. We are turning a simple perk into something that we need to count down and for hardcore it would be impossible other than counting down to know if your ghost was active or not because we don't get the triangle notification or mini map (unless we ourselves have UAV up). Second of all counting down a perk is just too complicated. In my opinion what we need to do is something we haven't done since probably Modern Warfare 2/Black Ops 1

    Because it's stupid? That's a cop-out.

     

    After all this back-and-forth I've come to the conclusion that you're a camper.

     

    So, all I'm saying is that, if someone wants to camp, go for it. I just don't want campers to have stealth; they don't desrve it.

     

     

     

    Again, I'm cool with the TRUE tactical players having complete stealth, and a system where one has 10 solid seconds to do their thing before moving again is one that would help those players that are stuck in that in-between ground where they aren't camping, but not running and gunning either.

     

    I don't care what you call me, camping isn't my playstyle and if you were to actually watch how I play I do move a lot and in objective games I'm usually at the fore front to help my team by either taking the objective or denying the enemy the objective. I just don't agree with a 10 second rule, does that make me a camper?

     

    No it makes me a guy with an opinion. If I had to choose, yes 10 seconds would be better than what we have right now of 2 second gap, of course it would. However I don't agree with it, I think we should try creating competition, because in MW3 we didn't have it but in Black Ops 1 and MW2 and previous games before them, we did have it and it successfully worked.

     

    You're choosing to ignore that factor.

     

    Like I said, I think its stupid to over complicate a perk and make people start being time conscious when we don't do it with any other perk. We don't limit perks to a time frame, we never have and I don't think it will make too much of a difference if we did it in Ghosts, I think we'd still have the same game as Black Ops 2.

     

    I like rankismet suggestion of having no radar at all and doing away with the UAV as that would add diversity, people would finally have to use their eyes instead of a red dot on the mini map.

     

    Also he makes some excellent other points.

     

    I feel you want a game where anyone who isn't actively moving 95% of the time doesn't have a right to stealth which isn't diversity.

  • 96. Re: Bring back diversity
    r8edtripx

    scotland-rules wrote:

     

    I don't care what you call me, camping isn't my playstyle and if you were to actually watch how I play I do move a lot and in objective games I'm usually at the fore front to help my team by either taking the objective or denying the enemy the objective. I just don't agree with a 10 second rule, does that make me a camper?

     

    No it makes me a guy with an opinion. If I had to choose, yes 10 seconds would be better than what we have right now of 2 second gap, of course it would. However I don't agree with it, I think we should try creating competition, because in MW3 we didn't have it but in Black Ops 1 and MW2 and previous games before them, we did have it and it successfully worked.

     

    You're choosing to ignore that factor.

     

    Like I said, I think its stupid to over complicate a perk and make people start being time conscious when we don't do it with any other perk. We don't limit perks to a time frame, we never have and I don't think it will make too much of a difference if we did it in Ghosts, I think we'd still have the same game as Black Ops 2.

     

    I like rankismet suggestion of having no radar at all and doing away with the UAV as that would add diversity, people would finally have to use their eyes instead of a red dot on the mini map.

     

    Also he makes some excellent other points.

     

    I feel you want a game where anyone who isn't actively moving 95% of the time doesn't have a right to stealth which isn't diversity.

    Yeah, I wouldn't mind COD taking the direction of helping someone with your <10sec tactical playstyle, but IMO, I really like that campers don't have full stealth.

     

     

    "...because in MW3 we didn't have it but in Black Ops 1 and MW2 and previous games before them, we did have it and it successfully worked." - This isn't exactly conclusive, especially since campers had stealth from UAVs in MW3.

     

    I feel that to "over complicate..." the ghost perk would be worth it in order to have some sort of compromise.

     

    I'm pretty sure rankismet is a HC player, so he would want no radar in the game. Thankfully, the devs would never do this because it will definitely eff with the COD formula, and I really feel people would bail on COD. I'm talking about a significant amount of people. Many claim that they're bailing on COD, but don't really, this would REALLY make people jump ship.

     

    The COD formuala is definitely one of fast-paced action; Minimaps keep it fast-paced. Even with no red dots, knowing where your teammates are helps so much when determining where the enemy is spawning, that the game slows down tremendously without a minimap.

     

     

    To address your last statement, if I were the one making the decision, (which I'm sure you're happy I'm not, as I'm happy you're not,) I could compromise with the "over complication" of the ghost perk, but...

     

     

    I DEFINITELY prefer a game where you have to actively be moving 95% of the time.

     

    I've been playing since MW2, and I've enjoyed Black Ops 2 more than any other COD. When I found out how the new Black Ops 2 ghost perk worked, I was smiling from ear to ear. I don't take the BO2 ghost perk for granted, and am enjoying it as much as I can before Infinity Ward changes it back in Ghosts. (I feel they are changing it back, but I still hold on to that little bit of hope that they won't)

     

     

     

    Since I like Black Ops 2 so much, it'll be hard for Ghosts to surpass it in my eyes, but I'm still really hyped for the next-gen consoles, and can't wait. Camper stealth or not, I'm gonna play the crap out of Ghosts.

  • 97. Re: Bring back diversity
    DSDDE

    Claiming people can't "camp" is as absurd as claiming people can't "rush". At the end of the day there is a map, that map has boundries, and whatever you decided to do within those boundries is up to you. I'm CONSTANTLY accused of camping because 1. my k/d is always high, and 2. nine times out of ten I'm behind cover when exchanging fire with an enemy. This is how I move around the map. I don't run around like a fool, I go from cover to cover waiting to exchange fire. If one particular area of the map is loaded up with enemies, you bet your ass I'm going to find a place to take cover and "camp" in that area. If I kill one or two people in a certain area and they come back immediately and I kill them again, you bet your ass I'm going to stay there to see if they come back a third time. To put restrictions on this type of game play is absurd. Rushers, not always but quite often, want everything handed to them. They want the game dumbed down to the point where the ability to formulate a type of tactic or strategy isn't even needed. They want everyone visible, loud, and moving at all times.

     

    I couldn't care less if someone wants to sit their ass in a bush and not move the entire match. The counter to that is to not run out blindly, you need to check corners and ALL areas before proceeding. It amazes me the number of times I'll purposely stand out in the open, off to the side of a room or open area, and enemies will just run right by me. Frequently I'll stumble upon two or more people in an area, I'll take out one of them and there's no reaction from the other enemies in the area. These two scenarios tell me that people don't pay attention to what's going on, this is why they ask for numerous safety nets, alert systems if you will...something to guide them to their kills and make things obvious for them.

     

    I want the exact opposite, as I stated in a thread of my own I'd prefer the minimap be a killstreak reward. I'm also down for having it removed entirely. There should be no restrictions of how people want to move around the maps, and no perks should be directly tied to your amount of movement. Black Ops 2 is a disaster for a reason, let's not include anything in Ghosts that ruined that game.

  • 98. Re: Bring back diversity
    xXMJIOLNIRXx

    I think Ghost should only work when your prone & crouched and if you want to move you have to crouch-walk or crawl at a certain speed for that weapon, if you are standing up you will be revealed by the UAV but you'll slowly fade onto the mini-map.

  • 99. Re: Bring back diversity
    HEREIAMNOW

    If they made their maps to mimic MW2...and used MW3 killstreaks/Support...and no deathstreaks...and a combination of the greatest perks from all COD games...and allowed the flying killstreaks a little immunity when coming in....and made shotguns 2nd weapon...and brought back rocket launchers..Greatest game of all time...