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  • 70. Re: Maps, are we complaining again.
    deamonomic

    nicedrewishfela wrote:

     

    Because you are making it a negative discussion rather than an intelligent one. You are making it an "Us vs Them" discussion and trying to divide the community.

     

    Nobody is insulting the devs, I am one of their biggest supporters. But sometimes you have to keep people honest. Sometimes you have to hold people to higher standards. If you read my posts, you will see I complimented them on how they reskinned the maps.  I loved the first Black Ops. Yeah it had its problems, but it had all original maps. It was innovative and exciting and new. Not every idea worked, but I applauded them for trying it.

     

    You are putting words into my mouth by making it seem that my opinion somehow is wrong. I expressed and explained quite clearly why I want new maps. I wouldn't want them to replay Old Campaign missions in the Campaign either. I am paying for a new game and new DLC, I just want new material.

     

    Do I complain when maps are re-skinned? No, I do my best to enjoy them and play them and have fun like always. Would I prefer new maps? Yes, most definitely.

     

    I compare it to a TV show I watch telling me there is a new episode coming out this week. I watch it, and it is really just a clip show of old episodes, re-hashing what I already know happened. Sure it may be fun looking back, but I would have loved to see something new. I can always watch reruns later.

     

    I have a great deal of respect for the Devs, and it is in the spirit of that I hold them to high standards. I want this game and future titles to be great: not just good, not just acceptable.  I don't like bringing old maps into new games. They don't always work out of context, and since they were designed for the previous game don't always flow well. Treyarch does a much better job than IW in this regard, but I think IW had more respect for the community by not asking us to pay for a map we had already paid for.

     

    I understand that there are people who like old maps, it is just my opinion that since I paid for a new game, I want all new maps.

    first I ask again, what words did I put in your mouth? as I recall I quoted what you said, higlighted it and asked you some questions.

     

    You said "And Whatever they did on COD4, they did it well because that game was amazing. Maybe the devs could learn from that model?

     

    Which I dont know how others take it but if your saying that in response to me saying that CoD 4 copy and pasted their maps, What I take away from it is you saying that the developers should do that. after all you said Maybe the devs could learn from that model?

     

    Their model was to rip the maps directly from the campaign! so why whould you say that if your arguing the complete opposite? you are arguing that they SHOULD NOT reuse things that have been used before. But then you go and say that it worked great in the past???

     

    And as far as Insulting the devs, Yes you guys are indeed doing just that. It might be because we grew up in different ways but telling someone that they are being lazy is never been really a good thing here. Infact its seen as rude if they are not really being lazy.

     

    Do you complain about the Re-skinned maps? what do you think calling them lazy is? Your saying that they would rather rehash an old map for money then go through the effort of making a new one. THAT is what it is to be lazy. That is what you are accusing them of. That is why its insulting. Even moreso when the overwhelming majority of the maps in the game are infact NEW. I could understand if they have 5,6,7,8 old maps and it took up half the DLC, THEN I could understand the responses.

     

    and your example was off. this is more akin to them saying that there will be a grouping of new episodes and indeed there are a decent amount of new episodes but they have one rehashing of clips. Thats is more accurate to the present situation.

     

    I would rather have to pay for the old maps then not get them at all. I would rather have the option of being able to play on my old favorites in this game from time to time then not at all.

     

    Not wanting to pay for the maps is cool and all but dont call them Lazy because of that. Like I said there are Many of us who would gladly pay for a remake of old favorites. For example I would LOVE to see vacant.

  • 71. Re: Maps, are we complaining again.
    NoLifeKing29

    I might complain a little more if BO2 had great map design, but it doesn't. Every single BO2 map has flaws, some minor, some drastic. None of them would be included in a best maps of all time list, maybe Standoff  towards the bottom. Revolution was pretty solid, gave us 3 good maps for all game modes and Hydro, which is really only good on SnD. Uprising sucked. Vertigo and Magma are trash, I just played Magma on HCKC, and the spawns were terrible, I regularly spawned right next to an enemy. Encore started off acceptable but the rampant headglitching and bad spawns have dragged it down into mediocrity. Studio is great, but the spawns are shaky, but there is nothing wrong with the map design. Why? Because its a BO1 map. So I am fine with a reskin of Summit, BO1 had superior map design. BO2 has the worst map design of any COD I have played, worse than MW3 and that says a lot because MW3 did nothing right.

     

    That said the spawns are ruining this game moreso than the terrible map design. Something needs to change with the spawns, then we can get into what the DLC maps are doing. If all 3 maps of Vengeance vault themselves into the "playable" category, then we can talk about new maps in DLC 4. If not, bring on more reskins.

  • 72. Re: Maps, are we complaining again.
    nicedrewishfela

    I expressed my opinion and I fleshed it out. Why stop focusing on MY opinion and tell us what yours is.

     

    Yeah, it is lazy to bring back old maps, in my opinion. I also am disappointed because... I already paid for those maps.

     

    Oh, and Vacant was brought back.. in Modern Warfare 2.. which is an Infinity Ward Game.

     

    And my point about COD4 was that it was brilliant in it's simplicity. You say they re-hashed levels from the campaign... which is awesome. Fantastic. MP is an extension of the story. The Campaign is on rails. I don't get to explore. I have to play it in a way consistent with how the game WANTS me to play it. To accomplish the goals they set out for me. Besides, the campaigns have gorgeous backdrops... why not make them part of the MP experience? They didn't take from an old game... they were inspired by the game itself. It was so popular because we hadn't seen anything like it. To this day, it still remains a favorite for many fans because of that. World at War also used maps inspired by the Campaign... it helps tie the MP into the story. Awesome. That is the great part of  starting a new storyline... nobody expects you to bring something back from the past. You are creating a new story, a new world, a new setting. That is why we get new games every year. There are still locations in the BO2 campaign that they can integrate into MP in this game that would make amazing backdrops for MP play.

     

    What is rude is coming on here and blasting someone for their opinion, especially if they have taken the time to explain it and not use insulting or argumentative language. I have great respect for the Devs and have let them know that. I know it takes a lot of work to make a map, even a re-skin... but I also understand the creative process. Re-hashing an idea is inherently lazy, and not trying to denigrate anyone...the Devs understand this as well. They also understand that people in the community want this and do so because they want to try to make everyone happy. I just personally wish they would focus that energy on new ideas and material.

     

    Just because people want something from an old game doesn't make it the right thing to do. What's popular isn't always right, and what is right isn't always popular.

     

    This is my OPINION. I am not forcing it on you, but you insist on saying "You guys want this... You guys want that..." Go ahead and express your own opinion, you aren't going to change mine.

  • 73. Re: Maps, are we complaining again.
    deamonomic

    sigh if you guys really want to be upset over a single map per DLC PACK. then thats upto you guys I guess. (and if you havent been paying attention I HAVE been telling you my opinion the whole time. it is my opinion that Calling the developers Lazy for reskinning 2 maps out of how many again? is rude and uncalled for and unjustifiable. Its great that you had your fill of them but not everyone did and would like to see their return. So calling them lazy for doing something a large part of the community actually wants them to do is just plain wrong.)

     

    I will say this again in a dif way, the Remakes are not made for YOU. They were made for those who want them. You got 3 other brand new maps from this last DLC and 7 other maps from the 2. I think you can give just two little maps up to those who want some of the old back. It wont kill you. And Fan service is not being lazy. I dont see how in any way shape and or form that it is.

     

    All the maps have awesome back drops, not just the ones from campaigns. Players are just too busy too look beyond the confines of the map.

     

     

    I Respect you Opinion but not calling them lazy. I consider It insulting to say that they are not working hard over there.  I mean I get it you want new things and you dont want things you have paid for before. thats great but you have to realise that They have to consider far more then just your opinion on the matter. There are plenty of players who WANT the maps. SO they are infact doing their job by releasing them.

     

    They are trying to give the best of both worlds but some groups wont be happy until its all about them I guess. And if you really dont have a problem with them releasing them then why say anything negative about it? and yes calling someone lazy is most definitely negative in my book.

     

    I dont see how you guys can justify them doing fan service by releasing fan favorites as being lazy. And again there are plenty of people who would gladly pay for those maps rather then not have them at all. So again saying that they are lazy simply because they are not doing things the way you want them to is rude in my opinion.

     

    for me this boils down like this: You are buying 3 new maps and getting 1 old remade map. Those who are buying it because of the old map are getting 1 old map and 3 new ones. Win win? should be but not in the cod community.... thats not good enough...

  • 74. Re: Maps, are we complaining again.
    deamonomic

    NoLifeKing29 wrote:

     

    I might complain a little more if BO2 had great map design, but it doesn't. Every single BO2 map has flaws, some minor, some drastic. None of them would be included in a best maps of all time list, maybe Standoff  towards the bottom. Revolution was pretty solid, gave us 3 good maps for all game modes and Hydro, which is really only good on SnD. Uprising sucked. Vertigo and Magma are trash, I just played Magma on HCKC, and the spawns were terrible, I regularly spawned right next to an enemy. Encore started off acceptable but the rampant headglitching and bad spawns have dragged it down into mediocrity. Studio is great, but the spawns are shaky, but there is nothing wrong with the map design. Why? Because its a BO1 map. So I am fine with a reskin of Summit, BO1 had superior map design. BO2 has the worst map design of any COD I have played, worse than MW3 and that says a lot because MW3 did nothing right.

     

    That said the spawns are ruining this game moreso than the terrible map design. Something needs to change with the spawns, then we can get into what the DLC maps are doing. If all 3 maps of Vengeance vault themselves into the "playable" category, then we can talk about new maps in DLC 4. If not, bring on more reskins.

    I disagree with that I think MW3 design was far worse, players consistently spawned next to me in that game and do so to less of an extent in this one. In 3 v 3 faceoff it was all you could do to not spawn inside of an enemy player who has just spawned himself!

  • 75. Re: Maps, are we complaining again.
    nicedrewishfela

    Point out where I said I was upset about the maps?

     

    And you are expressing your opinion.. about our opinions instead of voicing your own.

     

    You are taking my use of the term Lazy way too personally. As I stated, in the creative process, rehashing an old idea is inherently lazy. You obviously ignored where I complimented them for their work on the reskins.

     

    The community wants a lot of things, and not all of them are necessarily good for the game. My opinion is that I prefer new, innovative maps to re-skins. People want those maps back because it inspired something in them. They enjoyed playing them. The Devs did something right on those maps. I personally would love to see them create new maps that are so good... people are clamoring for them to return in future games. That is good design.

     

    It is my opinion that we are setting a bad precedent by asking for and bringing back old maps... and allowing them to charge us for them.  Want to bring back fan favorites? Fine, but respect us as fans by not asking us to pay for them.

     

    My opinion. I am not, nor have I at any point, insulted the devs or anyone who disagrees with me. This community is divided enough as it is. I just feel new DLC should equal new maps.

  • 76. Re: Maps, are we complaining again.
    Noctis Everto

    Well I can agree with your opinion. I just wish people wouldnt run 'round all the time. It would make the maps less bad IMO.

     

    Summit was my favorite map!

     

    I loved the bush next to the cliff-side, hid me well during SND games when the bomb site was RIGHT NEXT TO ME!

     

    But yeah new maps= better, because the nostalia of older maps may be destroyed by newer gameplay, or even worse, the players with their dirty playstyles O_O

  • 77. Re: Maps, are we complaining again.
    nicedrewishfela

    I loved Summit as well... in Black Ops.

     

    You nailed it. My issue is... I can pretty much tell you exactly where people are going to camp. Where they are going to spawn. I've played that map so many times. I loved it, in its context.

     

    And I have always said, without the players, CoD would be awesome

  • 78. Re: Maps, are we complaining again.
    deamonomic

    nicedrewishfela wrote:

     

    1. Point out where I said I was upset about the maps?

     

    And you are expressing your opinion.. about our opinions instead of voicing your own.

     

    You are taking my use of the term Lazy way too personally. 2. As I stated, in the creative process, rehashing an old idea is inherently lazy. You obviously ignored where I complimented them for their work on the reskins.

     

    3. The community wants a lot of things, and not all of them are necessarily good for the game. My opinion is that I prefer new, innovative maps to re-skins. People want those maps back because it inspired something in them. They enjoyed playing them. The Devs did something right on those maps. I personally would love to see them create new maps that are so good... people are clamoring for them to return in future games. That is good design.

     

    7. It is my opinion that we are setting a bad precedent by asking for and bringing back old maps... and allowing them to charge us for them.  Want to bring back fan favorites? Fine, but respect us as fans by not asking us to pay for them.

     

    My opinion. I am not, nor have I at any point, insulted the devs or anyone who disagrees with me. This community is divided enough as it is. I just feel new DLC should equal new maps.

    EDIT****  forgot to add, you are not the only person to have called them lazy. This is directed at anyone who has called them lazy because of this.

    1. If you have no problem with the Old maps being there then why are you here? I get you want to share your opinion but you say you have no problems with it but then say it shouldnt be there?

     

    2. and this is what I have been saying this whole time. That is exactly what they are NOT doing. You guys would be correct in calling them lazy if they were just throwing in the old maps to take up a slot because they didnt want to spend the time on making another new map or if they were making more old maps then new ones or if they were not making new ones at all.

     

    3.  Yes they are clamouring for new maps they always have been. but once again (you obviously ignored this bit) You have had just how many new maps with this game? how many are actually old maps? out of the ones released in DLC how many have been NEW? how many OLD?

     

    4. I would happily pay them to bring back many different maps and Im sure that opinion is shared by many others. I dont agree with the "it doesnt work anymore" comments. Personally I find that any map works just fine regardless. How many people would pay for wasteland to come back? Or your all time favorite? fact of the matter is likely more people are absolutely fine with paying for 3 NEW maps and for one of their favorites AND a zombies map. for that matter where are the complaints from those that dont play zombies? why are they not angry that they are over paying? (no seriously I dont remember ever seeing complaints... which is odd)

     

    5. Again you ARE getting new things in the DLC that never changed. I dont see why you cant allow for other players to get what they want. I mean yes you dont want to pay for the map because you played it in a previous game. But you cant call the developers lazy for trying to meet both sides halfway. I call that working hard not being lazy.

     

    6. and if your talking about it being boring, then I just have to say how is any map in the game not boring after 8 months?

     

    7. Its not a precedent at all. Old maps have been used many many times by many different developers as downloadable content. because most often the fans ask for it. and if your asking them to ignore a group of their fans then I ask why should they not ignore you?

     

     

    And before anyone rushes in with the fanboy remarks, Ima say this now, at any time if I feel someone is being treated unfairly (or things are being said about them that are unfair) I will defend them. its what I do. again Im not specifically at war with opinions here its this communities way of expressing those opinions. 9/10 its some kind of insult. your right this community has no Idea about whats good for the game or whats bad. left up to the community the game would be a horrifying wreck. But I think that the developers know what they are doing.

  • 79. Re: Maps, are we complaining again.
    starbuckfrack

    Back in the days of the Three Stooges they started getting more and more into taking clips from old episodes and redoing them with one new Stooge. The longer they kept putting out shows the more they did it.

     

    The reason they did it was not because they were lazy, the reason was that the wanted to save money and just rehash old episodes.

     

    They are called a corporation for a reason, they need to make cutbacks, etc.

     

    You have to remember they did not promise us all new maps in this DLC season.

     

    Sure we want new maps but if they were to give us 4 rehashed maps for the next DLC then they can still do that.

     

    You guys are sounding like me re-arguing the same statement over and over.

     

    After thinking it over for a day I am GLAD they give us an old map a chance to use the pick 10 system.

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