31 Replies Latest reply: May 24, 2013 6:33 AM by jeepchick RSS

100% Connection Based

Networker

I've done my own testing on this game and have come to the conclusion that your performance is directly related to your connection.

 

I believe that the host and also low ping players in each lobby are punished with an artificial delay.  I use the word punished because it is an overcompensation that actually allows the lagger an advantage.

 

I have high quality internet.  I've messed around with changing my bandwidth and altering my ping.  The bandwidth is not a factor, but the ping is.

 

I normally have a low ping to servers hundreds of miles away.  This game loves to make me host and then I get instakilled by some guy on a 3 bar.  This is not possible without an artificial delay added to the host.  This is not even really debated anymore. The delay is a fact.

 

I believe this happens to the low ping players in each lobby as well. 

 

How I beat the artificial delay: 

 

Search for a lobby with a clean connection.  Once in a lobby add 50ms to 100ms to your ping.  You will now be on the high end of the ping range for the lobby.  As long as you haven't added to much you will enjoy fantastic gameplay.  Shots actually register and people die in a few hitmarkers.  This is only for people who feel they are behind every game.

 

Funny thing since the update, I left the delay in affect between games a couple times and twice tonight the game MADE ME HOST! Lol.  What kind of flawed host picking are we dealing with?  I think they went from bad to worse.  I had never been host with the delay before tonight.

 

I have played this game consistently since MW1 up to the debacle that was MW3.  I have several hundred thousand kills in this franchise.  I know when it is not right.  At least they fessed up with MW3 and made it better late.  This game has issues and the only conclusion I keep coming to is simple incompetence on the part of the developers. 

  • Re: 100% Connection Based
    SeraphOne

    I'm also playing on a high performance connection and have had the same gameplay problems since launch, although I have the odd game where I do we'll in and feel like I'm not being compensated.

    How are you increasing your ping as I'd like to test this out and see if it improves the game for me?

  • Re: 100% Connection Based
    nuttin2say

    Not a scientific test.

     

    Other factors can affect your ping. Are you searching for matches based upon "Any," "Normal," or "Best?" You made no mention of packet loss. There is a known - but admittedly never acknowledged - issue with controller sensitivity when having the Target Assist turned off.

     

    How are you suggesting players "add 50ms to 100ms to [their] ping?" You don't have to answer that question because I already know.

     

    Effectively what you are doing is throttling your connection. Throttling is a modern form of lag switch.

     

    Fighting bad connections by making your connection worse is not a solution. What I suggest to you is to make a mental note of players who have a "bad connection" during a match then afterward go to their XBL/PSN gamercard and select "avoid" for those players.

     

    I admit that I do not have "several hundred thousand kills" in this franchise. And I do concede that lag exists - as it does in every online game to one extent or another. I don't see any more lag in BO2 than there was in any previous COD. I do believe the "Target Assist - off" and high sensitivity issue affects far more players than there are players willing to admit that is how they have their system set up.

     

    And that is based upon more than half a million kills in this franchise and 1000s of hours played between the various titles.

    • Re: 100% Connection Based
      deamonomic

      nuttin2say wrote:

       

      Not a scientific test.

       

      Other factors can affect your ping. Are you searching for matches based upon "Any," "Normal," or "Best?" You made no mention of packet loss. There is a known - but admittedly never acknowledged - issue with controller sensitivity when having the Target Assist turned off.

       

      How are you suggesting players "add 50ms to 100ms to [their] ping?" You don't have to answer that question because I already know.

       

      Effectively what you are doing is throttling your connection. Throttling is a modern for of the lag switch.

       

      Fighting bad connections by making your connection worse is not a solution. What I suggest to you is to make a mental note of players who have a "bad connection" during a match then afterward go to their XBL/PSN gamercard and select "avoid" for those players.

       

      I admit that I do not have "several hundred thousand kills" in this franchise. And I do concede that lag exists - as it does in every online game to one extent or another. I don't see any more lag in BO2 than there was in any previous COD. I do believe the "Target Assist - off" and high sensitivity issue affects far more players than there are players willing to admit that is how they have their system set up.

       

      And that is based upon more than half a million kills in this franchise and 1000s of hours played between the various titles.

      call Mulder... tell him we have another case for the... L-files *dramatic music*

    • Re: 100% Connection Based
      SandSeven

      nuttin2say wrote:

       

      I admit that I do not have "several hundred thousand kills" in this franchise. And I do concede that lag exists - as it does in every online game to one extent or another. I don't see any more lag in BO2 than there was in any previous COD. I do believe the "Target Assist - off" and high sensitivity issue affects far more players than there are players willing to admit that is how they have their system set up.

      I agree that while BO2 doesn't have any more lag than other games in the series, deamonomic's thread about the illusion of lag is making more sense every day. Everything he spoke about can be clearly seen in the game, and it does show some of the game mechanics are basically putting a spot light on the same lag that's always been there from game to game.

       

      What I'm curious about is, the effects of aim assist causing the illusion of lag to be seen even more. It seems as if, when the connection is good, so is aim assist. The opposite is also true. While this is nothing more than a theory based on speculation over the 75k kills in BO2, it's something I would love to figure a way to test. But, I know this probably isn't possible.

       

      I'm not talking about the issues with having the target assist disabled or what happens at higher sensitivities. I'm talking about the times aim assist is working well enough to drag my scope following a player that is a few paces behind a wall making a wall bang easier.

       

      Also I've noticed, the aim assist seems to be stronger or weaker against certain players in each game. While this does change game to game with the same player, most likely do to the host changing, I'm wondering how big of a difference is there, or if I'm just seeing the illusion of aim assist working inconsistantly. I don't think I'll ever know since how could this quantified into a numerical value that can factor in latency between player A and player B

       

      Example: using AA with 8 sensitivity drops your sensitivity to say 6 when you're ADS'ed on player B, but it drops to 7 in the same situation when ADS'ed to player C

       

      Multiple PVRs and testers is the only way I can see this being tested, bet even then I see too many variables that would lead to inconclusive results.

       

      Don't you just love trying to solve problems like this? I need another beer my brain hurts.

      • Re: 100% Connection Based
        deamonomic

        SandSeven wrote:

         

        nuttin2say wrote:

         

        I admit that I do not have "several hundred thousand kills" in this franchise. And I do concede that lag exists - as it does in every online game to one extent or another. I don't see any more lag in BO2 than there was in any previous COD. I do believe the "Target Assist - off" and high sensitivity issue affects far more players than there are players willing to admit that is how they have their system set up.

        I agree that while BO2 doesn't have any more lag than other games in the series, deamonomic's thread about the illusion of lag is making more sense every day. Everything he spoke about can be clearly seen in the game, and it does show some of the game mechanics are basically putting a spot light on the same lag that's always been there from game to game.

         

        What I'm curious about is, the effects of aim assist causing the illusion of lag to be seen even more. It seems as if, when the connection is good, so is aim assist. The opposite is also true. While this is nothing more than a theory based on speculation over the 75k kills in BO2, it's something I would love to figure a way to test. But, I know this probably isn't possible.

         

        I'm not talking about the issues with having the target assist disabled or what happens at higher sensitivities. I'm talking about the times aim assist is working well enough to drag my scope following a player that is a few paces behind a wall making a wall bang easier.

         

        Also I've noticed, the aim assist seems to be stronger or weaker against certain players in each game. While this does change game to game with the same player, most likely do to the host changing, I'm wondering how big of a difference is there, or if I'm just seeing the illusion of aim assist working inconsistantly. I don't think I'll ever know since how could this quantified into a numerical value that can factor in latency between player A and player B

         

        Example: using AA with 8 sensitivity drops your sensitivity to say 6 when you're ADS'ed on player B, but it drops to 7 in the same situation when ADS'ed to player C

         

        Multiple PVRs and testers is the only way I can see this being tested, bet even then I see too many variables that would lead to inconclusive results.

         

        Don't you just love trying to solve problems like this? I need another beer my brain hurts.

        you can test it but it would be very difficult to get accurate results. your also right in the fact that there are just to many variables. I would have liked to try the multiple PVR thing but in the end I fear that live gameplay of your own perspective is the only way an issue will ever be shown.

         

        to test that aim resist you would need a PVR and some free time. like I said it would be time consuming and very boring. lots of frame by frameness with back and forth action (accessories sold separately). if it is what you claim it is and is happening it should still show. but then you enter upon the problem of establishing what actually is the aim assist having issues and what is simply the player fighting or causing the issue to happen with the aim assist.

         

        its very possible it might just be a perception tweak.

        • Re: 100% Connection Based
          SandSeven

          I'm leaning towards a perception tweak with selective memory to blame. But at least when I feel it's working well, it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy resulting in wonderful game plays. The truth doesn't matter anyways since perception is reality

          • Re: 100% Connection Based
            nuttin2say

            Well, one thing you need to accept is that video games do rely upon perception. The reality is that the contest taking place is a matter of mathematical formulas and flows of electrons, not a cartoon character shooting another cartoon character.

             

            That in mind, one of the biggest problems in the COD community is that people tend to take opposing views personal (admission of guilt to doing that myself at times). But if you listen to what deamonic, starbuck, and myself are all saying without thinking someone is calling you crazy, you might be helped.

             

            First off, the magic question that needs to be answered honestly is whether or not you have tinkered with Target Assist and your sensitivity settings. From the sounds of it, you have. That's not necessarily bad. But it does immediately evoke a response from, particularly, deamonic and myself  because we did explore these issues months ago.

             

            Let me explain to you what happened in my situation and then you can see if something similar applies to yourself. If it does then maybe you can take the same actions I took.

             

            I have played with my sensitivity set to max since MW2. So when I put the BO2 disc in, like always, that was one of the first things I did. Then I went to playing the game. Although I hate that Ghost is effectively nonexistent in this game, I was impressed by the fact that my starting KDR was better in BO2 than it had been in previous COD games.

             

            Once comfortable with the game, I decided to start tweaking things to make sure I was operating at my optimum performance. The only thing I could really do there was to see if a different sensitivity would improve things. Lo and behold, there is an option to turn off Target Assist. This was exciting because one thing I have always loathed is opening fire on one target and aim assist dragging my aim off that target onto a different target and ultimately getting me killed.

             

            I can be very particular about which target I am wanting to engage first. Just because an opponent is closer to me does not mean that is the target I want to engage. If he is closer but does not realize I am near him but his teammate does know I am there and is about to engage me, I will take out the target that knows about me first. It's a "let sleeping dogs lay" mentality that works well for me. Target Assist tends to eff that up all kinds of ways to Sunday.

             

            So I turned off Target Assit. Just like normal, my performance instantly improved. Not much but very often "not much" can turn into a big difference.

             

            Lala ... lalala ... I go on about my business.

             

            About two weeks later I had finally had enough. Something was going severely wrong with my game play. I had dropped from a 1.6 area kdr to a 1.43 kdr area. Most notably, there were just too many times that I was CLEARLY, unambiguously on target and firing first ... but my hits were not registering. More importantly, bursts that should have registered kills were not registering kills.

             

            Okay. So apparently there is this "best" search function. I admit I had not been using that. So I set my searches to "Best." No improvement. In fact, it seemed things were still getting worse.

             

            Worst of all, the problem seemed, appeared, looked like - it was most noticeably against weaker players.

             

            Hmm. So now they have this skill based matchmaking nonsense. maybe ...???

             

            So I grab 10 or 12 recent matches from Elite and open up my trusty spreadsheet and start comparing apples to apples.

             

            You know what? Statistically, it did not matter if it was against lower SPM players or higher SPM players, my performance was declining. Steadily.

             

            Well. I was not a happy camper. In fact, I even tried doing nothing but camping. No luck.

             

            Then I tried using explosive more. That DID work. Hmm. Now that was weird. Explosive ARE scoring kills, but bullets are not???

             

            Well after checking and triple checking my double checks of everything on my end, I was at a complete loss. There was definitely nothing wrong on my end.

             

            Then, one night, I stumpled into the controller settings menu by accident. Oh. That's right. I forgot about that. I turned off Target Assist. Well, everyone KNOWS that could never be the problem. Any idiot knows that has nothing to do with lag issues.  But, for chits and grins, I turned TA back on.

             

            Okay, so I had one decent match. Just up against total idiots. A second decent match? Coincidence. A third match that proved to be a pretty good match?

             

            Wait. Something is definitely different here.

             

            Ah, I know. They did a live update.

             

            Nope.

             

            Could it be? Could it really be that the entire problem centered upon Target Assist?

             

            Well, you know what I did? I went back and looked at a bunch of games in Theater. Theater was showing my aim off time after time (matches from period with TA off). And my aim was off by a lot, too. I knew that was total BS.

             

            So what I did next was to turn TA off again ... but this time I lowered my sensitivity back to the default. Guess what?

             

            No lag issues.

             

            TA off with sensitivity at 8? Meh. sensitivity at 9? Okay, here we go again. Sensitivity at 11? Yes, aim is way off. Sensitivity at 14? Game is unplayable.

             

            Okay. So what if I go back down to the default sensitivity with TA on? I can't turn fast enough. TA with sensitivity at 9? That's a little better. Sensitivity at 11? Yes, this is getting much better. Sensitivity at 14? No lag, but I am definitely spinning around too far and missing. Sensitivity at 12?

             

            That's about right. Not perfect, but I haven't had a really good match in more than a month. I may be a little rusty.

             

            Three nights later I began contacting two people I knew would have some expertise in this matter. One is a famous forum member. He explained, in more words than this, that playing with Aim Assist off is a bad idea ... especially at higher sensitivities because the slightest lag situation can greatly influence where the bullets register. The other person I contacted is a game designer. He agreed - do not turn off Aim Assist. His explanation is that high sensitivity may want to input more movements than the game has time to calculate and, therefore, bullets that are on target are not going to be input into the calculation. Bullets that are off target will also not be calculated which does not matter, its the bullets that are on target but do not calculate that is the difference between winning or losing a battle. This second person suggested that if you want Target Assist off, then keep your controller sensitivity as low as possible. If you're okay with Target Assist, then set the sensitivity to your level of satisfaction and go on about your business.

             

            And, of course, he added, that under those two scenarios, if you're accustomed to high sensitivity, the best option is to turn TA on ... not to run a low sensitivity with TA off.

             

            Either way, the second guy suggested, the best option is up to the individual player. But if TA is going to be off, then your controller sensitivity needs to be low and vice versa if you use TA on.

             

            So. Like I said. There is a certain hubris that allows some players to say, "I don't need the training wheels of Aim Assist and, ad hoc ergo propter hoc, Target Assist has nothing to do with lag."

             

            Believe it or don't believe it. Doesn't matter to me. But the above is true to the best of my memory. And my scalding, pounding ... I feel like someone is drilling a hole in my head tonight for some reason.

            • Re: 100% Connection Based
              deamonomic

              same dang thing happened to me more or less. I was doing tests for the lag argument and I turned off target assist. well I forgot to turn it back on. the end result was that I thought I was being devoured by the rumored lag monster at last.

               

              it took a few days for me to remember that it was off. once I realized that, i went "ooooooohhhhhhh" /on. ah thats better.

               

              I honestly thought I was having bad lag issues. but even then I still had that really annoying voice in the back of my head going your missing... stop missing... its not lag... smack... its not lag... SMACK.

               

              was a good read

        • Re: 100% Connection Based
          starbuckfrack

          Just think with the next Xbox we can record everyone gameplay at the same time with the xbox.

           

          I am very curios to how the new xbox will play out . Will this be the best game ever without lag or will it be the next laggiest game on earth ?

           

          Probably the second one because people love to blame others besides themselves.

  • Re: 100% Connection Based
    starbuckfrack

    There is no artificial delay. Its called the internet.

  • Re: 100% Connection Based
    SeraphOne

    I'm not that interested in the theory behind this "discussion", I'd rather just artificially increase my ping and see what the results are. Can anyone recommend how I can do this?

    • Re: 100% Connection Based
      SandSeven

      Yes but I feel it would be wrong. Google it. It's how I learned about it.

      • Re: 100% Connection Based
        SeraphOne

        .....in what way do you think it's wrong?

         

        If it was other way round and I upgraded my connection to improve my gameplay would that also be wrong?

        • Re: 100% Connection Based
          nuttin2say

          What do you mean by "upgrade your connection?" UL/DL speed has nothing to do with connection quality. Google it. Ping is more a reflection of the distance than the line quality. Packet loss, though, matters.

           

          How are you going to increase your ping? By streaming while playing?

           

          If you want to believe that is going to solve all your problems I have some ocean front property in Arizona I can sell you. I'll sell it to you really cheap and then you can sell it for a lot more - because it is ocean front property - and that will solve all your nongaming problems. Honest.

           

          You know, every single person that comes on here and complains about lag that makes the claim that streaming improves the game play and claim that doing so reduces lag?

           

          Yeah ... every single one of them keeps coming on these forums to continue complaining about lag ... even though supposedly throttling their connections solved all their lag problems.

        • Re: 100% Connection Based
          deamonomic

          SeraphOne wrote:

           

          .....in what way do you think it's wrong?

           

          If it was other way round and I upgraded my connection to improve my gameplay would that also be wrong?

          ima just say this to you seraph, go for it if you want, just know that doing so violates your xbox ToS. they have the right to perma ban you instantly. its considered cheating. no amount of arguing will change the fact that if they catch you doing it, you will go poof.

          • Re: 100% Connection Based
            SeraphOne

            Wow, even after following all the fanboy posts on the site it never ceases to amaze me.

            So me running off my mobile or downloading files while playing will result in a ban?

          • Re: 100% Connection Based
            SitRepPro

            Ah yes.  The only way around this would be for everyone who runs Xbox live to have a dedicated line for it and nothing else to be used while they are gaming.  You realise how much revenue MS would lose if they banned people from shared connections whilst playing games on XBL?  It's not going to happen and MS have gone further in investing the family audience with the production of Xbox One.  A lot of stuff is considered bannable according to the ToS including trolling, but there are plenty of YT trolls out there who have yet to be banned despite clear video evidence.  Now why doesn't MS ban them?  Simple answer.  They lose money from their paid subscriptions.

             

            This is why it's really bad on Saturdays sometimes and for parts of the evening during the week.  Shared connections where everyone in the family is doing something on the internet whilst one gperson is playing COD.

            • Re: 100% Connection Based
              starbuckfrack

              Sharing your connections is not a bannable offense because when you are sharing your connections you are not deliberately manipulating your connection.

               

              There are reasons why Microsoft has family accounts.

               

              Using unauthorized equipment or methods to manipulate your connection is a violation. Watching Netflix in another room is authorized.

        • Re: 100% Connection Based
          starbuckfrack

          SeraphOne wrote:

           

          .....in what way do you think it's wrong?

           

          If it was other way round and I upgraded my connection to improve my gameplay would that also be wrong?

          Manipulation of your internet to use Xbox Live is a violation of the Terms.

           

          BTW improving your internet is not really going to help your gameplay.

          • Re: 100% Connection Based
            SeraphOne

            hahahha, its the same little herd of fanboys trying to supress anyone trying to find a way to improve their gaming experience

            • Re: 100% Connection Based
              TL_Bare_B_V2

              Nothing wrong with trying to improve your game play but when you use questionable methods that are a detriment to other users you clearly shouldn't be doing it.

               

              According to CoDHQ logic with my FO connection I should be 5 seconds behind everyone, yet I still manage Swarms most games, it all comes down to setting up your home network correctly.

  • Re: 100% Connection Based
    SeraphOne

    Networker, aside from the posts trying to sidline OP I'm still interested to know how you add 50-100ms to your ping?

  • Re: 100% Connection Based
    o0RAMP4G30o

    the game is all about connection.............i used to be on 2.5meg and any gun i used was crap..........the only gun i could get kills with was the an94.............i got 2 annoyed with spongin n lag so i stopped playing for abit............i changed my isp to virgin media n got 60meg. now when i play i get host and i can run and gun and kil but every now and again when i play people from other countries i cannot kill them. u can be shoooting them in the back and they can turn and kill you with the same weapon

  • Re: 100% Connection Based
    o0RAMP4G30o

    the game is all about connection.............i used to be on 2.5meg and any gun i used was crap..........the only gun i could get kills with was the an94.............i got 2 annoyed with spongin n lag so i stopped playing for abit............i changed my isp to virgin media n got 60meg. now when i play i get host and i can run and gun and kil but every now and again when i play people from other countries i cannot kill them. u can be shoooting them in the back and they can turn and kill you with the same weapon

  • Re: 100% Connection Based
    maccabi

    Networker wrote:

     

    I've done my own testing on this game and have come to the conclusion that your performance is directly related to your connection.

     

     

    Had you of stopped your post right there i would've been showing you with praise as thats the best statement i've seen posted about "lag comp" for ages as its true.,

     

    unfortunately you then wrote

    Networker wrote:

     

    I believe that the host and also low ping players in each lobby are punished with an artificial delay.  I use the word punished because it is an overcompensation that actually allows the lagger an advantage.

     

    Soooo close but no cigar.. I honestly dont get why people insist on giving whats basically latency as you play over the internet another tinfoil theory name like artifical delay.

  • Re: 100% Connection Based
    trialstardragon

    You are so far from eht truth it is not even funny. They do not add in a delay, they do not add ping, they do not slow down the connetion of others with lag compensation.

  • Re: 100% Connection Based
    jeepchick

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