40 Replies Latest reply: Mar 18, 2013 1:53 AM by BukLau101 RSS

The Sad Truth About Shotguns

ghamorra


One weapon balancing aspect I think Trey nailed was Shotguns pre-nerfs. They seem to be right on with what I'd imagine their damage to be, as well as their range. Post-nerf, I still think they're strong and respectable. They still can deal out OHK and the semi-autos are versatile enough that they too can be used successfully.

 

But I hate Shotties, completely. Why? Because its just too easy. I'm not saying they're OP but that doesn't mean we don't have a problem. Infact, I'd venture to say that Shotguns are far from what their IRL forms are in terms of damage and range. There's no skill to using them. Ever go against a full party of Shotgun toting yahoos? Its awful.

 

Last night on Hijacked this happened too me. If you were lucky enough to get some distance on your opponent and kill one you can be sure that another guy would behind him to spray you down with one pull of the trigger. Get 2 or 3 shots off and Mr. 14 sensitivity will turn on you and take you down with a wild 870 blast from the hip. Is it the fault of the non-shotgun using player? I don't think so, he took a situation that was as to his advantage as he'll ever get and still lost.

 

So where does this leave us? I'd say that Shotguns are something that needs to be considered when designing future titles. Again, they're not too powerful or even remotely that. But instead of inserting Shotguns in the game there should be considerations made so that there are environmental disadvantages. Instead of nerfing something that shouldn't be nerfed Trey needs to find more intuitive ways to do weapon balancing and I think changing up the maps (well looky there, another issue that can be solved by map design) rather than doing a quick & easy nerf

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    Hells_Hawk

    I think the shotguns are great the way they were is this was black ops 1 or even mw3 with just a bit bigger maps. I love the shotguns, but with 3arch making the maps mainly for SMG's it also makes the maps a play ground for shotgun users.

     

    People are always going to complain shotguns are OP because they can one hit, as they should be able to.

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    HaitianCreation

    I can understand if you run around a corner and a shotgun guy is running at you and you get blasted but what I hate is when you put 3,4,5 hits on a dude and he turns around with his screen red as can be, blindly hipfires and OHK's you, I think out of all the guns in this game the Remington takes the least skill.

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    monkeylord

       Between the abundant cover and tiered maps staying out of shotgunners reach isn't that hard as soon as you see more than 2 enemy in a ballcap just switch to the mid-range path and the shotguns are negated.

    • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
      ghamorra

      Its not so much keeping your distance, its more about the unloading 3 or 4 rounds only to OHK

      • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
        monkeylord

        ghamorra wrote:

         

        Its not so much keeping your distance, its more about the unloading 3 or 4 rounds only to OHK

          Yeah that can suck but COD spanks into you pretty fast that even if the shotgunner has their backs to me that it's best to always back pedal as you engage and the tac button layout will save you more often than not.

    • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
      Hells_Hawk

      Unless the shotgun user has gone to the ksg, as those slug rounds with range can still one hit and mid range...

      • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
        monkeylord

        Hells_Hawk wrote:

         

        Unless the shotgun user has gone to the ksg, as those slug rounds with range can still one hit and mid range...

          Even the KSG can be negated with range and cover, I love the KSG but I wouldn't take it on the mostly mid-range route.

        • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
          Hells_Hawk

          I've out shot a lot of Ar's, not saying much in this game, but KSG and long barrel and red dot, it seems it has a far one hit kill as long as you hit chest up.

          The ksg is really the only shotgun I now use, unless I want to go the the s12 and spray bullets because people are camping in a room.

          • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
            monkeylord

            Hells_Hawk wrote:

             

            I've out shot a lot of Ar's, not saying much in this game, but KSG and long barrel and red dot, it seems it has a far one hit kill as long as you hit chest up.

            The ksg is really the only shotgun I now use, unless I want to go the the s12 and spray bullets because people are camping in a room.

              I like the KSG with laser,long barrel and stock and fair enough you can pick off snipers and people mid to long range but I wouldn't run the same route with it as I would an AR/sniper and the maps provide plenty of different sight lines for the weapons so there's no real reason on any map to be consistently entering the OHK range of the shotguns unless you're toting a shottie yourself it's the same principal as avoiding sniper sight lines.

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    TRU11

    pretty much everything is this game comes down to 1 connection and 2 aim assist.

     

    hip fire used to be a last resort because it used to be very un accurate and in prior COD you had to devote a perk to at least get some accuracy.

     

    now you just have to press fire and the game does the rest lol and add a laser sight if you want even more accuracy.

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    redx165

    The only shotgun that needs a nerf is the R-870. Make it take longer to pump. Keep the range. If they did that less people would use the lag cutting R-870.

     

    ~THE NOOB KILLER

    • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
      KSizzle

      really nerf talk.  if you miss a shot with that gun your toast right now.   ever come up on more than one person, you cant spray and pray like any other weapon.   its fine as it is, yes ohk are an advantage,  but look at the disadvantages its has also.

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    SandSeven

    Shotguns are annoying, but only R870 could be considered over powered and is by some, but in my opinion it's not. The OHK range of 870 is long but also inconsistent. There's plenty of time between pumps for me. The only adjustment I would make if forced to change something, would be the hip fire spread. This would take a way some of those wild turns killing you when you feel they have no right, but this wouldn't sit well with me. It's a shotgun, that's the advantage of it.

     

    The KSG is an accuracy gun. It takes time to line up the shot because if you miss, you're dead. It's also connection dependent. Great example of a perfectly balanced new weapon type for the CoD series.

     

    The other 2 shotguns do exactly what shotguns should do. Any complaints about these should be taken up with the map design department.

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    Dandaman955

    I think shotguns are in the limbo along with snipers in which it's really difficult to balance them. But anyway:

     

    R870 - This NEEDS a slower pump. What was wrong with BO1's Stakeout (Aside from 'dem close range hitmarkers)? Every weapon should have cons, and as long as you stick to the CQC sections of the map, there's no penalty for using this weapon.

     

    KSG - Works a lot like a sniper than a shotgun, but the ADS balances out it's unbelievable range.

     

    S12 - Needs a damage buff IMO.

     

    M1216 - Works fine. Nice range with it.

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    BukLau101

    I don't think shotguns are entirely the noob cannons people think they are. Sure anyone can use a shotgun but can anyone do consistently well with a shotgun? More than half the time I see shotgunners going negative or barely going positive. Do I get annoyed by the 'lagcutting' R870? Of course I do, nothing is more frustrating to put 3-4 shots on a guy only to get insta deathed.

     

    I have one suggestion for the R870 that might seem a bit counter intuative but hear me out. Make the hipfire spread tighter , lolwut???

     

    If the hipfire spread was tighter people wouldn't be able to do 180 turns and hipfire, you would actually have to place your shots carefully rather than wildly hipfire all over the place. Hipfiring is way too forgiving with the R870 especially considering that when using the R870 you only need 2 (out of 8) pellets to hit for a 1 shot kill at close range (where most of the engagements happen in this game).

     

    That suggestion wouldn't work for the M1216 of S12 because they are spam shotguns and they are weaker so if you make the hipfire tighter it would actually be a significant buff to those guns and currently I think they do not need a nerf or buff.

     

    Personally I just find the shotguns really lacklustre in this game. They are all ugly, The only one that performs half decently is the R870 and even that has consistency issues. The maps might be small but all the headglitching TF users will probably kill you before your shotgun is even in minimal range (KSG excluded). MW3 was an awful game but it almost got shotguns right (damage proficiency was unlocked too late and than there was the imbalance of the striker).

    • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
      goofy56

      Striker wasn't overpowered. In fact, it had the same stats as it did in mw2. In mw3 the other shotguns were **** ( except USAS-12 and KSG-12) SPAS-12 hit markers , Model-1887 inconsistent and AA-12 ...

      NO RANGE. The balance of MW2 shotguns was nearly perfect and closest we COD fans will ever get to experience. The OHK was decided by your accuracy not the stats. The problem was they were secondaries.

      As for BOPS II, the remington in my opinion should have never been nerfs. The KSG should always be a one shot kill at any range ( because it's a deadly slug ). S12 and M1216 need buffs BADLY.

      If i gave a patch i would do this.

      S12                                                            M1216

      8 pellets , 33-15 damage ( 4-7 pellets )         8 Pellets 30-10 damage ( 4-10 pellets )

      Increase range: 12m- 16m                     12m-16m

      Make crosshairs smaller

      Up capacity to 12

      People complain about the game because they want attention. There is nothing that is overpowered. All treyarch needs to do is make more BUFFS!!!!

      • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
        BukLau101

        I never said the Striker was OP (unless using the ext. mags glitch with the damage proficiency) I just said there was an imbalance. It was a spam gun that had decent range and damage + because it was spammable so it wasn't really affected by the inconsistencies of the other shotguns. Anyway when you weren't getting point blank hitmarkers the MW3 shotguns were pretty decent.

         

        MW2 shotguns were amazing (I miss the spas 12)

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    SULLY130EighT

    The Remington I see being used more than ever. Even on large maps. Most of my streaks are ended by the Remington. I'm even running into a lot of people using Shotgun Overkill classes. Having a certain shotgun as their primary and a different shotgun as their secondary. There needs to be a nerf on the Remington with Range. And I don't complain about much.

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    mdm123456789

    There are ways to beat shotties, it's out in the open. I do agree with you though on future weapon balancing by making the maps different. But I totally have to disagree with you about the shotguns being easy to use. I am a huge 870 fan and am pretty good with it, but I also know which maps to use it on. If it's on something like Highjack, d@mn right I'm running and gunning with the 870 and chances are there will be some pissed off fellas on the other team. But if you wanna talk about weapons that are to easy to use then you need to talk about ALL the SMG's. This is only my opinion, but SMG = Total Noob. 870 and the KSG are beasts and far from easy to use.

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    SandSeven

    I enjoy going against shotguns in FFA with the DSR even in CQC. If I can survive a few gunfights against an 870 while quickscoping, it makes me feel I'm starting to get the whole sniper thing down. Generally you're going to get owned CQC, but with a ranged weapon, I don't mean an SMG, a shotgun user is helpless when you position yourself correctly.

  • Re: The Sad Truth About Shotguns
    SergeantGudda121

    iget hitmarker city at point blank rang with the shotgun