46 Replies Latest reply: Feb 15, 2013 7:07 AM by xmrythem RSS

Hardcore Discrimination

gvfd732

why is it that in every installment of COD the developers decide to make everything CORE? I know I am going to hear from the peanut gallery that not enough people play hardcore and hardcore is lame. Well I particular do no give a crap what you think this message is for the developers. So blast away!! All many of us HC players ask is a fair shake with the content. i.e. Nuketown, FFA, Domination, Ground War are only CORE. WTH at least they can give us a chance to prove ourselves.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    nicedrewishfela

    Many threads on this. I am sure yours will be locked, has been the pattern.

     

    I am an HC only player and I feel your pain. Sadly we are the smaller community (Fine with me. Less players= Less DBs overall), but we still are a significant portion of the community.

     

    I say offer the playlists. MW3 had horrible HC with Ricochet, but they still offered a nice variety of HC modes.

     

    It baffles me, to be honest. Good conversations on here, some with Devs in it. Take a look.

    • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
      gvfd732

      My threads usually do not get locked they usually get out right deleted!! Censorship at its best!!

      • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

        I completely agree with this, hardcore is the only way I can play without getting completely raped.. as weird as that is. I do wish there were more options when it comes to hardcore!

      • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
        NoLifeKing29

        Probably because you make bad threads.

        • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
          gvfd732

          I have never used profane language, or offensive wording in any of my postings. Only guess I can make is the reason for deletion is that the moderators/developers are afraid of sarcasm and people that request a fair shake for the money they pay them. 99% of all my postings are somewhat like this but nicer.

      • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
        nicedrewishfela

        To be fair... it says in the CoC spamming a repeat topic is against policy. So you know going in...

         

        But I would like to know why we aren't getting any love or changes. They took out the Timer, God knows why. In some ways its better, but it ruins tactical play. How can I turn the tide of a match when the guy I just killed spawns immediately behind me? Shorten it, not remove it maybe?

         

        We all agree, at least HC players do.

        • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
          gvfd732

          to be fair, repeat topic? it should not be considered a repeat topic if you got to search through hundreds and hundreds of posts to find the right thread to post under plus in my opinion, a post older than a certain date should be considered a dead thread and not count toward the CoC. Just my opinion. Plus if it is considered a repeat topic, how about them fixing the issue that keeps arising then we would not have a repeat topic anymore! Just Saying --

          • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

            Agreed. Why I like HC and want more game modes:

            1) I like the realism. To be honest, the amount of rounds it takes to drop someone in Core is not realistic.

            2) No mini map. In Core it's hard to not wanna run ghost and silencer all the time just so you don't light up like a christmas tree when you take a shot at someone.

            3) Better communication from players that play in HC. Like someone else has said, less DBs

             

            These are just 3 quick reasons. Given more time to think, I could come up with many more.

             

            If this is a repost, and they're going to lock it, why have a community discussion anyways? Have they (the devs) offered any reason why they won't create more HC? Or are they just unwilling to do it so any discussion about it gets locked and thrown in the garbage?

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

    4 HC game types compared to 3 times as many Core. I mean, is it too much work to add those HC modes? I honestly thought that they would eventually release more game modes for HC. Guess I'll have to go back to MW3 to get my HC fix.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    Restore_Hardcore

    Not enough gamers can handle HC, only a select few. Core is too childish for me. Just my opinion. HC is the only way to play.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    coopz

    i agree with core sucks ass really bad i have been play hardcore since waw and never looked at playing core since but in black ops 2 they dont offer us enough hardcore modes and when do they take away a mode to put the new one in its really stupid, they should give us atleast 6 modes in hardcore to play and maybe some hardcore league play not just core all the time like the clan ops make them hardcore aswell

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    cranium2001

    It's like getting a package of Starburst. I like them all except lemon. I want more strawberry but, they put mostly lemon in.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    Restore_Hardcore

    I wonder how many HC guys are stuck in the core Dom list.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    Jhumpss

    I only discovered HC in MW3, and I now play a mixture of both, I enjoy the level of realism HC offers, and it also offers more mature lobbies (usually), I have to agree that there is a lack of game modes in bo2, I much prefer objective based modes, and would definetly be up for playing more HC modes.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

    gvfd732 wrote:

     

    Well I particular do no give a crap what you think this message is for the developers.

    This is a forum, a community forum. The entire idea of posting something is so the community can see it. If you want to send the developers a message, there are much better means of doing so, like e-mail or twitter. (actual services meant for one-to-one communication) The devs aren't going to search through these forums for hours to read your topic.

     

    Seems like you just want to say what you want, have everyone read it, but have an "excuse" as to why nobody else should be able to have an opinion.

     

    As for the actual topic: it is rather simple. COD is a business. The goal is to make money, NOTHING else. They make money by keeping players happy and keeping costs low, in a sort of balance. The percentage of hardcore players playing the game does not outweigh the costs of giving you more playlists. It's like asking Ford to start making their CD players out of gold because 4 people really like gold. It would cost them more money than it would make by keeping those 4 people happy. It's a simple as that. Deal with it. It would lose the company money, so obviously, it's a bad idea.

     

    And if you don't like that they are a company and care about money, quit buying their product, you are only making them money.

    • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

      And here all this time I thought good businesses focused on giving the customer more than they expect. Thanks for the capitalist insight...

       

      Frankly, COD is big enough that any company could follow the basic COD algorithm and turn a buck in this franchise. But trey likes to put out vids and sneak-peak trailers talking about giving the players what they want with new create-a-class, maps, guns, etc etc etc stuffs. And there are MANY players that want HC, or this discussion wouldn't come up again and again (that's what I've gathered anyways). Many of the people I run around with WANT HC, but are not going to visit forums or twitter to voice their opinions...

       

      But you are right about using twitter and other forms of communications. Happen to know any of their twit handles?

      • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

        Sorry, I don't have any of their handles, I really don't ever have a reason to contact them.

         

        Yes, Good business do focus on giving the customer more, but it would be downright stupid of them to give the very small percentage of customers something that will either cost them more money than it makes them to implement, or upsets the larger majority of the customers in the process.

         

        They have two options:

        1. Give HC players more playlists, and lose money because of it, because the amount of money they would make from having more HC people who only play HC play and buy their game would be much much less than the money it would take to bear the costs of adding those playlists.

         

        2. Don't give the HC players what the want. That is only a very small majority of players in the first place. Only a very very small percentage of that very small percentage would actually stop playing and buying their games because of this.

         

        So their options are either.

        1. Make people happy, lose money.

         

        2. Make people upset, but in the end, make more money.

         

        It's a business. It sucks, but the #1 goal of any business is to make money, and that has to come first.

        • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

          How does giving us HC make them lose money exactly? And after we buy the game and buy league pass, all they do is lose money. I'm a software developer and I'm having trouble believing that if I can create a custom private game with my friends to be HC, then they have to do more than flip a switch and we get it HC playlists. You don't think they already developed it? The whole not making money thing doesn't make sense since this not a pay-per-play game.

           

          I also think you are exaggerating how small the HC community is, btw.

          • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

            Maybe I am exaggerating how small the HC community is, I'm no expert. If someone can prove me otherwise, I'd be happy to change my argument. As for the losing money part, it has been stated that there are a limited number of slots for playlists available, which I take to mean that to add more, it would require more resources, and in the end, more money.

            • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
              Restore_Hardcore

              About 1/4 to 1/3 of the players are in the HC list on some days. There aren't more because of the lack of lists, if you do the math there are a higher percentage of HC players in 4 lists vs the 12 core modes, the huge bonus mode, and the 3 lists in revolution. The math clearly says there are more HC players per playlist.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    CHRISSY

    MW3 had the same issue and then when everyone moves on to BO2 the put HC moshpit in the playlist, why wait sooooooooo long to do this, HC gamers pay the same price for the game as core players so why do we get a 4 game playlist

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    rdnsnow

    Because the majority of players play core. If you add more hc game modes then it will be that much harder to find a game.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

    I just don't understand how people even play core.. I'm not going to stop playing black ops just because they wont give us more HC maps.. its disappointing to say the least. But playing core just pisses me off because you shoot people an unrealistic amount of times and then get killed. At least in hardcore if you can aim you have a decent chance of getting some kills. I think their should be an even amount of both.. how can anyone be mad about that? Seems kind of unfair to all of us that do enjoy HC (and only play HC.. because core is so ridiculous) to only give us 4 options. I say make an even amount of both and then theres nothing to ***** about by either party.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    LargeLentils

    there needs to be more HC modes.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    starbuckfrack

    gvfd732 wrote:

     

    why is it that in every installment of COD the developers decide to make everything CORE? I know I am going to hear from the peanut gallery that not enough people play hardcore and hardcore is lame. Well I particular do no give a crap what you think this message is for the developers. So blast away!! All many of us HC players ask is a fair shake with the content. i.e. Nuketown, FFA, Domination, Ground War are only CORE. WTH at least they can give us a chance to prove ourselves.

    They havent listened to you guys posting for YEARS. so why would they listen now ?

    • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

      The Modern Warfare developers listend and had more HC modes, despite the fact that they couldn't make a decent map. It makes me wish I would have been loyal to their products. And if you're not joining those that are trying to show the HC community is in dire need of more modes, why bother posting here? We're tried of arguing with your "expert" opinions and are really just trying to get more HC people to post to show we aren't a tiny minority.

      • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

        We are definitely NOT a tiny majority.  In fact, all my friends (real life) who own this game play HC only.  The only person I know personally that plays core is my buddy's 13 year old son.

         

        I would love some HC Domination.

        • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

          WindopanevM wrote:

           

          We are definitely NOT a tiny majority.  In fact, all my friends (real life) who own this game play HC only.  The only person I know personally that plays core is my buddy's 13 year old son.

           

          I would love some HC Domination.

          Thats funny all my friends all play core. Look at how many people are in the core playlist and then look at the HC playlist.....Huge difference. Just because you and your friends only play HC doesn't make you a majority lol.

      • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
        starbuckfrack

        spacemanjones wrote:

         

        The Modern Warfare developers listend and had more HC modes, despite the fact that they couldn't make a decent map. It makes me wish I would have been loyal to their products. And if you're not joining those that are trying to show the HC community is in dire need of more modes, why bother posting here? We're tried of arguing with your "expert" opinions and are really just trying to get more HC people to post to show we aren't a tiny minority.

        Ummm, I play hardcore too. But you gotta realize at one point the horse is dead.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    LimonAgrio

    gvfd732 wrote:

     

    ...that not enough people play hardcore and hardcore is lame...

    For a brief moment there I thought You were talking about League Play... Hopefully in the future, they remove that crap and revamp Hardcore.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

    Agreed! Harcore is so much more realistic, and challenging, and FUN, than stupid core mode. And why, as someone else mentioned, WHY ARE THERE NO HARDCORE CLAN OPS???? I started a clan, thinking that a few of my friends could join in and we could run aroud and enjoy ourselves while helping each other level up and prestige, so on and so forth...then ater I create a clan and go to look at the challenges, EVERY SINGLE F#%$ING ONE WAS CORE! I looked at upcoming challenges..."Core Team Deathmatch. Core Kill Confirmed. Core >insert mode that hardcore is deprived of here like Demolition (I think that's what it's called. i never play it BECAUSE IT'S ONLY CORE)." I looked at the expired (ended) challenges. "Core. Core. CORE." Even if they never add more hardcore modes (though I hope they do), then at the very LEAST, give us Hardcore Clans a chance to do something we actually enjoy! Now I have to face the very real possibility that my new clan will never level up because I never play core and neither do most of my friends/potential clan recruits. SUCH A WASTE! COD, Treyarch, Activision, whoever has control over that-hell, I don't care if it's the Khan of freaking Mongolia-SOMEBODY needs to give us Hardcore Clan options! And if they don't, then this game is far more pathetic than I imagined it could be. SO. LAME.

    And yes, I do want the other modes in Hardcore. I don't know if I'd like them, or hate them, or ever even bother playing them, but the option to have the same experience as core players should only be the FAIR and RIGHT thing to do. We paid just as much for the game as they did, and those of us who bought the dlc didn't spend a penny less than core gamers. So why should we get less?

    You know, I bet they're just waiting until at least 50,000 people admit openly somewhere that they'd be willing to pay for more hardcore so that they can charge for a "NEW DLC" that cost extra just to unlock hardcore for all modes. As Mr. Software Developer pointed out, there's really not much of a programming difference between the modes. Essentially you change the simplest of dynamics in the code script that loads at the start of the game. Like....Map on/off. Friendly damage "x"%. Enemy damage "x"%. Health "x"%. Ammuntion for <name of gun> at start = -insert # of default rounds- ....

    Think about it. None of the maps, classes, perks, rules of conduct, objectives/goals, graphics, or sounds change at all. The only real differences are with the character, because he switches from his core to his hardcore mode and still all the weapons in the roster are the same. If they can make those four modes Hardcore AND Core, then it would only be a simple handful of source-code lines granting the same option of the other modes.

    Unfortunately, Mr. 'Capitalist Viewpoint' is probably correct, to some degree. I think they'll listen to us....when it lines their pockets. And it hasn't been worth their while yet, because core players are still buying it and making them money.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    sqitso

    Well sadly.. David Vonderhaar had said is some interview a number of months back that hardcore was considered a game "mode" meant for fun, like sticks and stones or gun game. His comparison not mine.. basically he said it wasn't meant to be taken seriously because there is a whole new level of balance that would need to be considered.

     

    I understand why he would consider it that way, since you start with only 30th health... but if you balanced it.. Then the whole 30 health thing wouldn't be valid. I mean if you make guns weaker and everything to balance to the 30 health you are basically back to playing core.

     

    but.. needless to say. Just letting you know Vonderhaar doesn't consider Hardcore a real game mode. Thinks it's a joke.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

    Because you guys are a minority.

    • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
      Restore_Hardcore

      Minority? More like the OG cod vets kid. Most vets only play HC cause we know how lame core plays. Sure some old schoolers like core but not any I know. Why do all the core kids cry about this game? HC plays like butter and core is inconsistent.

      • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

        Yes you guys are a minority it doesn't matter that you are "OG cod vets" you are still a minority compared to the amount of core players vs hardcore players; To question that makes me question you but then again I would expect you to be biased towards HC with the name Restore Hardcore so it will be hard for you to see something that you don't want to see.

         

        Also the reason they can't introduce more gamemodes is because of space if they want to introduce HC Dom or Demo etc they would have to take out HC CTF or KC etc which will just cause a bunch of threads entitled "WTF why did they take out HC ....!?!?"

         

        You can't make everyone happy.

        • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
          Bielsalmighty

          As much as I've been loving HC in this game, I have to agree with this. Ah well, HC KC is an absolute blast so as long as that stays I'll be happy. I love it when people say 'eugh, HC is a campfest'. HC KC is anything but, awesome pace to it since they took out the respawn timer!

        • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

          Hardcore may be A minority but its not THE minority is it?

          THat accolade belongs to league play, which usually has a fraction of the

          players you see in HC yet still has a whole host of game modes available, that apparently nobody

          is interested in playing.

          To add more HC games modes simply remove the lobbies that are not "selling", namely league play.

          Noone cares about league play, we're just having it thrust upon us whether we want it or not.

          • Re: Hardcore Discrimination

            Hmm true but this game was actually built around being more of a "competetive/MLG" style game. Vonderharr listened to those guys which is why there is league play, tons of headglitches in the maps and the maps are more symetrical. Also the introduction of Shoutcasting/Codcasting? etc.

             

            Also I don't really play League Play alot so someone may want to back me up on this but there used to be 3 playlist choices up untill a couple of weeks ago and now there are only 2 choices. Again not 100% sure but I do believe so.  Therefore they did remove some of those lobbies that are not "selling" why they are not introducing more HC gamemodes because of it IDK maybe they did it to include a new gamemode in the next/future DLC? 

             

            Wait and see.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    ghosthound

    I first started playing HC on Call of Duty 4. At first I hated and loathed it - I didn't know where the enemy was or where I being being shot from.

     

    But then I adapted and have never looked back.

     

    There should be more HC gamemodes, but not the 'softcore' ones - we need 'HC only' gamemodes.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    biron_w

    I don't get the whole "there's less people playing HC" thing.

    There's very few people playing League Play yet the devs keep banging on about that!

    Plus whenever i'm online there are ALWAYS more people playing HC KC than Core.

     

    Although I only play KC so i'm not that bothered. The only thing that does annoy me is that there is never a HC mode for when the new maps come out.

  • Re: Hardcore Discrimination
    xmrythem

    HC is by far more fun. Main reason, killing friendlies and getting booted because of it. Makes the game way more fun as you suffer consequences rather than busting out a VTOL or Loadstar and just destroying the enemy with no downside or ability to teamkill.