11 Replies Latest reply: Feb 7, 2013 2:48 PM by tlaspepper RSS

Balancing double standards

nintendon't

I was thinking...why are there so many double standards when it comes to balancing in this game?

 

Like why do powerful SMGs like the PDW/MSMC get little-low recoil while power ARs like the Scar kick you in the face? Why do Sniper Rifles get 100% mobility but ARs/LMGs don't? Aren't sniper rifles heavier than most ARs and aren't some snipers in real life just as heavy as LMGs? Why put sound perks in the game if you can barely hear footsteps? Why is the B23R better at CQB than the Chicom?

 

 

I'm not saying I'm not enjoying the game but some stuff logically doesn't make sense. Am I crazy for wondering about this or should I drink some of the COD happy fruitpunch to understand?

  • Re: Balancing double standards
    infinitlag

    Drink the stuff that made you get the expert callsign for the FMG9.

  • Re: Balancing double standards
    like2nap03

    Maybe it's because that's what it takes to balance all this craziness.  Doesn't the game feel pretty darn balanced now?  I mean you're right.  A lot of it doesn't make sense, but it just kinda works you know.  The stuff with the guns I mean.  Don't get me started on the footsteps again...

  • Re: Balancing double standards

    Drink the coolaid.

     

    I've said before, that before I could enjoy this game I had to let go of my knowledge of human physics and what I know of military TTP. Once I did, I loved the game.

     

    As for footsteps, Its hit or miss on my end. Sometimes I can hear them fine if there are no close gun fights happening. Other times I'll hear them about the same time their little rambo knife is slicing my throat. I'm guessing the system lag issue that's such a hot topic has some play in this. My audio is either earbuds or run through my home audio system with SS. I have effects and voice levels pretty high with music and secondary pretty low. Not that that would make much difference.

  • Re: Balancing double standards
    M4GNUM

    I'm happy with the wiimote controls at this point. There is still some ADS while turning camera locking goofyness and turret aiming is still weird, but I can deal with it. My main complaints now are the same as yours:

    1) Pistols - beating ARs at distances over 40 yards with OSKs should NOT be happening. Ever. Pistols need a serious damage and range nerf

    2) Everything you said about SMGs - they should not have less recoil and less accuracy than an AR

    3) What you said about footsteps - need to buff those sounds so the perks get used

    4) Some/most sniper rifles can be 30+ pounds. It's funny to see someone running around and shoulder-firing QS as if they were the weight of an Uzi.

    5) Blast radius of launchers - how can they bring down a UAV or CUAV thousands of feet in the air, but it takes 2 shots to bring down a sentry gun at 10 yards? If I fire one at the feet of 2 people, why do I get hitmarkers. They shouldn't be buffed too much because then it'll be ridiculous...but it needs a slight buff.

    6) Connection's impact on weapon performance - I ran the SCAR naked to get the last challenge done before getting it gold and it was a laser! Probably the best game I've had so far. Zero recoil, crazy accurate at range. Next match? It was like a bb gun and recoiling like crazy. Couldn't hit the broad side of a bard. It was odd.

    • Re: Balancing double standards

      M4GNUM wrote:

       

      2) Everything you said about SMGs - they should not have less recoil and less accuracy than an AR

       

      Ok, so the realism of the weapons/fires/effects is on trial here. I know this is a game, but hey, we're talking weapons and that is one thing I do know. And maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying above, if so I apologize for the drawn out explanation that follows, but SMG's are pistol caliber fully automatic weapons. The pistol caliber allows for less recoil, thus making automatic fire much easier to control (get to target faster and stay on target longer) but with the obvious reduction in range b/c of the smaller caliber. Assault Rifles, on the other hand, use larger, more powerful calibers which obviously increases the recoil and makes them much harder to control with automatic fire. Hence the 3 round burst was invented and implimented. However, the accuracy and range of an assault rifle is greater especially at ranges of 100 to 500m. Not to mention an assault rifle is going to be much more effective against a hard target (body armor, vehicles, etc). In real-time, I wouldn't want to engage in an open area fire-fight (city streets, woods, fields) against an assault rifle if I had a SMG. Likewise, the person with the SMG is going to have a significant advantage in CQB. This isn't gamer knowledge, it's factual doctrine that I have to live by.

      • Re: Balancing double standards
        M4GNUM

        Personally, I have always felt that SMGs, while having a small caliber, have such an increased rate of fire that the recoil can be larger...further increased by being a lighter gun to try and control (rate of fire + light weight = harder to control/higher recoil). With ARs, I was mainly thinking of burst firing (my preference). While having a higher caliber, the weapon itself is easier to control...reducing recoil. Both have recoil obviously, but specific to the game...it appears ARs have recoil and SMGs do not have much. For balance, I would think the game SMGs should have a little bit more recoil than they have. Especially when noob rapid fire perk is employed. All of that affects accuracy.

         

        And I'm also talking about 40 yards and out as far as range/recoil/accuracy. SMG should almost always win in CQC. I play a lot of HCTDM and nothing irks me more than being killed when I shoot first with a burst fire AR against a rapid fire PDW (or even worse a pistol) from across the map.

         

        And I have zero real life personal facts I think I have a bb gun around here somewhere...so I'm mainly talking gaming theory here.

        • Re: Balancing double standards

          lol. A well placed bb could cause a significant emotional event . Your concept on SMG recoil stands to reason, but just is not the way it is. This is not to say that SMGs don't have recoil. Its def. a refined art to open one up and stay on target. An untrained individual would have a hard time trying to accomplish this. The ganster approach (spray and pray) is much more common among the un-disciplined. That's why we use controlled bursts. 6-9, 10-15, etc, depending on the RoF of the particular weapon system (used even on much larger belt fed MGs). Even when employing this technique, you'll be able to throw much more lead at your target in a shorter amount of time than a 3RB AR type weapon. The heavier (but not too heavy) carbine type ARs do offer very little recoil in a 3RB or single shot, but just not as smooth as the SMGs with full auto. Again, I'm talking real-world, but it does offer a suggestion as to why the devo's have it set-up this way. (I was pleasantly suprised to see the devo's consulted with Armorers and other industry pros when the credits rolled.)

           

          Disclaimer - I'm not an SMG expert but I am familiar with them (to include operation and TTP). I do consider myself an expert on the M4 Carbine and the AR family of weapons.

           

          And just to throw this out there, AR doesn't stand for Assault Rifle, although we all use it for that from time to time. AR actually stands for the company who originally designed the weapon system, Armalite. Now I'll try to stop boring y'all with my gun geek stuff.

          • Re: Balancing double standards
            M4GNUM

            Great, now it appears as though I have to stop whining. Lots of good information there, thank you. I never thought in a million years that SMG RoF + low weight = greater accuracy/less recoil than an AR (only use that abbrev due to laziness). I do see an exception with real life vs gaming and you do mention it - burst SMG vs spray and pray. A majority of gamers spray. And a majority of gamers will use one SMG forever (like the PDW), rather than learning ARs for example. I've never been a one weapon gamer - seems super boring. I need challenges to keep interested in the game - get one AR gold, then move onto the next...and so on.

  • Re: Balancing double standards
    DatBigSwitcha2

    According to my chart snipers only get 95% movement speed. Although whether they have 100% now i dont know. But that is considerably faster than LMGS (90%). Wasnt the run speed in MW3 80? Seemed like a good balancing factor because you needed speed on it to do anything.

     

    The Scar needs decent recoil because its 3 shot kill range is huge and has been buffed even more. Having picked it up a few times, i wouldnt say the recoil was hard to control at all, its practically vertical with a tendency to go right (in my experience).

     

    The footsteps in Black ops were "Too loud" according to David Vonderhaar, which is why the footsteps were nerfed in this game, Awareness does have its uses in demolition though, you can hear the bomb being planted easier and you can hear the shouts of enemy players (HYUBEANA!) easier, although this isnt really enough to warrant its usage.

     

    I suppose treyarch are taking it easy on noobs, IWard just doesnt care, sitrep pro was godly in MW3 on wii, you could sounwhore for days and no-one ran dead silence, made the game so easy xd.

     

    Yeah the B23R is a problem, wunno why they need a small type 95 pistol in the game, stupid imo.

     

    Overall, dont try to understand CoD logic, its just too hard lol.

    • Re: Balancing double standards

      This company is probably like the one I use to work for. Its all about quantity not quality. Its lets make it and get it out the door as soon as possible and as many as possible and we will worry about the problems thats wrong with it later.The good ol american way, thats why american made products suck.