33 Replies Latest reply: Feb 4, 2013 1:20 PM by RemiG1985Quebec RSS

Almost all stats mean nothing.

The only stat that matters is Wins.  SPM means nothing due to the fact that people get stuck in empty lobbies.  K/D means nothing due to the fact that you can always go positive against worse players.  W/L almost means nothing because of the amount of Host Dashboarders and Connection Loses.  Winning is the most important thing in an online video game.  If you don't strive to win then why play the game, you are better off playing Animal Crossing or Farmville.

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
    deamonomic

    RallyOrDie wrote:

     

    The only stat that matters is Wins.  SPM means nothing due to the fact that people get stuck in empty lobbies.  K/D means nothing due to the fact that you can always go positive against worse players.  W/L almost means nothing because of the amount of Host Dashboarders and Connection Loses.  Winning is the most important thing in an online video game.  If you don't strive to win then why play the game, you are better off playing Animal Crossing or Farmville.

    well... in my own opinion, all that really matters is being the top player for my team while playing the aiming for the win. I dont have to win, I just have to know that I did well by my standards. You cant always pick your team as such its pointless to be angry if you lose. If you tried your best and still lost, then take comfort in the fact that it wasnt your fault.

     

    back in  Halo 2, I often had the feeling of being backpacked by my friends. I used to wonder why they invited me. Its possible that I was just being hard on myself. But that feeling of being the person dragging everyone else down sucks. and I remember that feeling. I generally refuse to be that person now.

    • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

      I was definitely not the best at Halo 2 either and was often carried by my 13 year old friend.

       

      I think it is all about doing the best you can when trying to win that matters.  I miss the Halo 2 days were people cared more about winning than anything else.  In Halo 3 I would always get invited to play TS with 50s when I was a just a 48 or lower because they new I could hold my own weight.  I never got my 50 on Halo 3 but after many attemps and others doing bad it never happened, still a 49.

       

      One thing that has been lost in online gaming especially FPS games is that competition is the main aspect of the game.  You put 2 teams against one another and see who comes out on top.  Now if they just implemented a ranking system that worked similar to WoW's Arenas, then the multiplayer could last a year or more.  Just look at Halo 3.  After 3 years that game had over 100k people playing it, and ~1/3 of those people played Ranked playlists.

    • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
      randomhero204

      I was good at halo 2... Played halo competitively since h1 when there was only land..I'm an og (I'm 30 btw)

       

      The reason me and my friends invite worse players is so that you get put against worse players..

       

      See this is how halo worked and en cod to this day does this.

       

      When you search with people it tries to find people of similar skill, so if I'm prestige master the game will try to find prestige masters for me to play against.

       

      Bring in people of different ranks and it relies less on skill and more on finding a match.. Also if you make the lowest ranked person the host the. It'd will search for their matches... Making it even easier!! Lol

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

    The only thing i aim for is being Top 3 player each match. Winning is always good but i can take a lost and a beating, its a video game and games are to have fun. The CoD community lives in the delusion that stats means something when its so easy to manipulate them.

     

    I will start taking my stats serious when i can buy thing from them.

     

    Stats also have a positive effect, if the developers remove the stats then everyone will run around with a rocket launcher and do team killing. Everything has a positive and negative side. Stats are a form of brainwashing if you know what i mean.

    • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

      I would really perfer a True skill ranking system based off of the 1500 system.  You start out at 1500 and if you lose you go down, if you win you go up, depending on the average of both teams.  Very simple concept.

      • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

        I would love that, its a great idea. A True skill ranking based on all your stats as a whole. Every stat like K/D, W/L, SPM, objective stats should be merged into on stat. And the ranks should be different each gamemode, Lets say you are rank 700 in TDM but in DOM its 500. I love that idea but it seems hard to calculate.

        • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

          Trueskill rankings are only messured by wins, nothing else.  If you played against equally skilled players all the time your K/D would be much lower that it is now.  SPM might be higher but teams that are on the bottom still contributed to the win.

           

          You have a team of 1650s play against a team of 1655s.  The 1650s win, they go up 20 points, as for the 1655s they go down 5 points.

           

          You have a team of 1500s play against a team of 1700s.  The 1700s win, they go up 5 points, as for the 1500s go down 5 points.

           

          You have a team of 2000s play against a team of 2550s.  The 2000s win, they go up 50 points, as for the 2550s go down 50 points.

           

          This a generalization of what could happen.  Really the only stat is the rank.  And for the leaderboards you have were you stand based on your rank.  2500s being at the top, 1500s in the middle, and <1000s at the bottom.

          • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

            W/L alone is not a good indicator in my opinion, it should be a overall mix of  50% W/L, 15% K/D, 15% SPM, 10% objectives, 10% accuary, something like that. Its really not that easy to make a good true skill based matchmaking, if you are a solo player then your TS ranking will be trash, thats the nature of playing solo unless we get a proper Mercenary Playlist where parties aren't allowed.

             

            What you described is basically the League TS ranking system where only W/L counts. W/L could be good if full clan plays vs full clan but its not the case. Its mostly Clan vs Randoms (which is unfair in my opinion).

            • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

              K/D should have no effect because it isn't a good indicator of skill.

              SPM should have no effect because people play different roles in a game not every needs to play the objective and thus Obj should have no effect.

              Accuracy should have no effect because it doesn't make a be difference if you are accurate or inaccurate to get a kill or win.  True skill has always been based off of one HARD factor, winning and losing.

               

              So that brings me to another point.  For this ranking system to work it has to have locked lobbies, no join in progress.  To counter Party vs Solo players, a party of 4+ searches for a game, and gets matched up with another party of 4+ and the game starts 4v4, 5v5, 6v6.  At the end of the game your rank will be updated.  And the lobby closes, and then you search again.

               

              Basically Halo 3 had the best ranking structure that I can think of.  If you know anything about that than this will make complete sense.

              http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/faq.aspx

              • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

                You made lot of good points, props for that.

                 

                I haven't played Halo 3 so i can not speak from my own experience. I read a lot about the true skill based matchmaking from the article you have posted so i am semi familar with it, but again, i haven't played Halo 3. I am just aware of the concept behind it.

                 

                I like the party vs party matchmaking you have mentioned a lot, its fair and should be in CoD as well but sadly thats not the case. I can only speak from my own experience with Black Ops 2 and that when ever i search for a match then i get randoms while the opposing team gets a party of 3-6, thats not fair. I am not tryin to act like i am a pro gamer but to me it seems like the game puts me "a solo player" in the same tier list as a clan of 3-6 players, and i am probably not the only one who thinks this way. For some unknown reason the game thinks i can handle a clan by myself. I say "by myself" because the team i am getting is 9/10 times worthless, they go negative and don't help at all, in fact they make it even easier for the enemies team.

                 

                I will be honest ok, i haven't played the game since a week because i am sick of the team balance in this game, its always me alone vs a clan while all my random team mates got negative and don't help at all, i wouldn't have a problem with it but it happens every single game and i am sick of it. I hate it. I want a proper Mercenary Playlist where i don't have to lobby surf to find a gamemode i want to play. When i play Merc Moshpit and the first two matches are TDM and KC but the next is SnD then i back out, i can't stand this game mode so i am forced to search again and this is very annoying, i hate it and it got to the point where i have zero desire to play the game at all. In fact i've deleted the game of my xbox because i can't stand the gamemodes and team balance. I am not a bad player, its just to much for me when every single game is the same unbalanced teams.

                 

                I don't expect you to agree with me and my experience. A matchmaking where parties are getting matched vs parties and solo vs solo is the first thing i would vote for in CoD.

              • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
                deamonomic

                if you lock lobbies how do you deal with the rage quiters?

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
    obzi

    99% of the time I play with randoms and so a win is pretty much out of my control.  I can do my bit, in fact a lot of the time I do more than my bit but by the law of averages my win/loss always hovers around 50%.

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

    Stats never meant anything to begin with.

     

    A number doesn't detract from my overall enjoyment of the game.

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
    CowboySr

    Oh look its another thread from someone insecure about his stats that feels the need to justify it to random people on a forum.     Nobody starts threads about how stats mean everything here on the forums, so why the opposite?

    • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

      The only stat that means something is winning.  I am tired of people dashboarding on me to protect there precious 1.2 K/D.

      • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
        CowboySr

        Well actually it doesnt as people that play with a team of 6 good players ar going to have a much higher win ratio then the guy that goes solo with randoms who suck.  I would just say that stats are misleading, but people arent bragging about them here, so who cares.

        • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

          Teams will always be better than playing solo.  Stats are not always misleading.  You can tell who the real team players are and who the K/D and stat junkies are.

          • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
            CowboySr

            I didnt say they were always misleading, but much of the time they are.  I'll be more specific:

             

            K/D is a good stat for TDM and SnD. A better stat would be +/- as technically someone could go 2-1 every round hiding  and only be +/- 1 and not as helpful as someone thats5-3 and therefore +2. SPM means nothing in TDM.

             

            SPM can mean something in objective modes like domination, but if that guy is 30-50 hes given 50 deaths to killstreaks for the opposite team which might have lost it for his team. On the flip side the guy who sat there defending A might go 17-2 and have a low SPM but because hes killing people out of the defend range his SPM is low, but he may have won it for his team by not letting the other team take a flag.

             

            A person who plays with 6 members will have a 70-80% win rate or higher, but does it mean a whole lot since the odds are always in their favor? On the flip side someone that has a high SPM or K/D that plays solo may have a low win% because this game matchmakes and puts the worst players with the best on the same team so the games are as close as possible.  Does this mean his low win % means he sucks? No because its rigged to work out that way.

             

            The fact the matchmaking is skill based basically wipes out most legit theorys on stats and their meanings as better players are being matched with better players watering down stats, and bad players are being matched with bad players more regularly , boosting up their stats.

             

            Thats why I say theyre misleading. There are just too many factors to pigeonhole a players skill.

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
    SitRepPro

    You realise that even if you join a losing match that cannot be overturned via spectator mode you are given the loss regardless?

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
    SheSaidNo

    I think it's the heirarchy of needs.  You can care about stats when you feel your gameplay is fair and even.  But not until those first basic functions are taken care of.  Back in MW3 I cared about my K/D and win/loss because I thought I was getting fair games and it was an accurate representation of my abilities.

     

    But with BO2 I've consistently played at a disadvantage with the amount of lag I receive I no longer care about any stat and am just trying to get into a decent game where I'm not being punished so severely being behind all the other players.  In BO2 my only concern is getting decent gameplay, which is few and far between.

    • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

      I think the lag is quite good in this game compared to MW3.  I disabled the theater and many other functions and it helped out alot.

      • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
        SheSaidNo

        At the moment MW3 plays significantly better.  But at this time last year, MW3 played just as crappy as BO2 does for me now.  The only difference is MW3 had ups and downs.  One day I'd have good games and the other day it would totally suck.  For BO2 they've consistently been bad.  The only day I had fair games in BO2 was when I had to download 30 gigs worth of files. 

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
    NoLifeKing29

    Everyone looks at stats differently. W/L means nothing to me personally, it doesn't indicate anything.  Nothing will ever change that. In this game SPM means more to me since I play HCKC exclusively.

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
    xmrythem

    RallyOrDie wrote:

     

    The only stat that matters is Wins.  SPM means nothing due to the fact that people get stuck in empty lobbies.  K/D means nothing due to the fact that you can always go positive against worse players.  W/L almost means nothing because of the amount of Host Dashboarders and Connection Loses.  Winning is the most important thing in an online video game.  If you don't strive to win then why play the game, you are better off playing Animal Crossing or Farmville.

    you realize wins are not accurate either because when someone dashboards the game, you get the loss.

    • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.
      deamonomic

      xmrythem wrote:

       

      RallyOrDie wrote:

       

      The only stat that matters is Wins.  SPM means nothing due to the fact that people get stuck in empty lobbies.  K/D means nothing due to the fact that you can always go positive against worse players.  W/L almost means nothing because of the amount of Host Dashboarders and Connection Loses.  Winning is the most important thing in an online video game.  If you don't strive to win then why play the game, you are better off playing Animal Crossing or Farmville.

      you realize wins are not accurate either because when someone dashboards the game, you get the loss.

      well... considering that he mentions that in the text you quoted.... yes, yes i think he does

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

    Wins mean nothing when you run solo and 95% of matches you get thrown in are absolute beat downs. It's not fun trying to find a lobby for 30 mins solo when every game your put in, your spawn trapped, have team mates on 2-30 with enemy kill streaks up.

  • Re: Almost all stats mean nothing.

    EVEN  win does not mean a lot in public matchs.

     

    You dont know who you are playing with or against.

     

    Maybe there is a guy in the lobby who is splitscreening with someone who dont own the game.

     

    Maybe there is one or more poeple who just had their evening vodka or whiskey

     

    Maybe there is some who are trying to level up some less efficient weapons like the crossbow, riot shield or RPG

     

    Maybe there is one that jsut prestige, so he lost all is favorite  perks and weapons

     

    Maybe there is a guy who got interrupted 3 time by the phone during the match

     

    Its too random to give it importance