27 Replies Latest reply: Jan 23, 2013 7:40 PM by mickan123 RSS

Improve hard point - make hard point locations random

Swaggin412

What ruined hard point for me was that hard point locations aren't random, majority of the time you have people sitting at the next hard point location before it even appears. I think hard point would be a lot better if hard point locations were random, it would be more fun/chaotic to have players scrambling around because nobody would know where the next hard point location could be, it would also make it a little more challenging.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
    JSlayer211

    Hope you are prepared for the angry kill whores to give you 1 million bogus reasons it should stay static. Dynamic hardpoints would be the best imo. Right now, I just pretty much stay away from hardpoint matches as it's majorly a deathfest and lowstreak-topia.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
    phxs72

    I see your point and it definitely would up the chaos factor (not a bad thing imo) but there is some strategy advantages to knowing the hardpoint rotation.  Yes, you can get to the next hardpoint before it pops up.  I've seen teams use this to their advantage when the enemy team has thoroughly locked down the current hardpoint.  They proceed to the next hardpoint and lock it down rather than contining to feed the enemy kills.  It can help to keep the games close.  Not knowing the next hardpoint location would take away this aspect but it would introduce a bit of pot luck for whatever team just happened to be posted up in the right area.  I don't think that it would be a game breaking dynamic but it definitely would make it a different game.

    • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
      Swaggin412

      I see where you coming from, I don't think dynamic locations would be ground breaking. but it would keep you on your toes at all times and remove the "comfort" zone factor becacause like you said with static locations players are already know where to go. Dynamic locations could make for close games too, nobody has an advantage because its random and nobody knows where it can pop up next.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
    Ungrateful_Dead

    Watching the timer and moving to the next Hardpoint at the right time is part of the game strategy.  It works the same way as Headquarters, doesn't it (I haven't played much HQ since BO)?

     

    I see what the OP is getting at, but I think randomizing the HP would put to big a luck factor into deciding the game.  As it is now, your spawn point is related to your teams being in possession of the HP or not.  If your team has it locked down, you will spawn close by.

     

    If you randomize the HP, you could be getting killed away from the objective and end up spawning right next to the new HP.  That would give you an advantage that you hadn't earned, and potentially influence the outcome of the game.

     

    The problem I have with HP right now is the same issue that plagues all objective modes.  Groups of kill-whores who take advantage of teams trying to play the objective in order to farm easy kills.  These guys ignore the concept of winning and just hold down choke points between the spawn and the objective.  If you want to win, with the clock ticking and limited routes available, you have to fight your way through them.  A crappy metaphor would be having Ray Lewis playing second base in full equipment looking to slobber-knock you out while you tried to round the bases in a baseball game.  You just arent' playing the same game. 

    • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
      JSlayer211

      But Hardpoint as it is, is a killwhore fantasy wet dream come true. You know where everyone is going to go before they even get there lol. How much better can it be? Not only that but you even get a timer to show you how long you can expect them to come there and be at the next spot to smack them up in route there as well lol. As long as it stays static, it will be an easy farmfest. Matter of fact, I think I will go call in some swarms on that tonight lol.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
    zingaa

    I'd like to see it random as well, same with headquarters...players love to cherrypick it for the free capture

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
    rdnsnow

    I totally agree. Its not skill knowing where the next location is. Memorizing hard point locations goes beyond game skill and its stupid that its possible to do it. It should be random.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random

    I agree. I enjoyed hardpoint until I learned you can know the next location.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
    Noob_Lyncher

    I don't play Hardpoint enough to learn the locations. Even then, it's called strategy. What's stopping you from keeping an eye on the reset timer and running to the next location when there's 10 seconds left? When in Rome...

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random

    with this logic, bomb plants for demo should also be dynamic and not just stay at one point in the map.

     

    When the sides flip for demo the flags should move as well.

     

    SND bombs should move every round so you don't know where they will be.

     

    Don't complain about the movement being fixed, it serves a purpose. Spawns especially in hardpoint are uncontrollable and you can't set a trap. You can anchor spawns for your team but you can't trap the enemy.

     

    Knowing when to move, how to move and where to set up to have good spawns is part of the strategy involved in the game. And you are just as capable of moving to the next point as the people you are complaining about.

     

    You only know where everyone is going, not where they are coming from like Demo, Domination and CTF if you have a problem with static objectives it should be in those game types

    • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
      JSlayer211

      Wow you don't know where people are coming from in Hardpoint? Are you kidding? There is really only one place TO come from or go to. Also are you playing Black Ops 2? Because these maps are so small with narrow passages that covering expected paths is a cake walk. Placing a claymore in one street could block the whole passage should someone not notice it.

      • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
        snoops07

        Hardpoint doesn't need random spots.   Everyone has the same choice on moving onto the next spot or stay at the current.  No one has an advantange over another.

      • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random

        No you don't. You know where they are going but you can't know exactly where they are coming from.

         

        Demolition and CTF you KNOW where they are going to be coming from exactly down to the corner on the map. Domination if you are intelligent and know the spawn limits you can know exactly where they are coming from.

         

        Hardpoint has anchor spawns and you can move that around the map depending on where your team sets up.

         

        Hardpoint rotation stops randomness in the control of the hill, promotes teamwork and intelligent set up and requires a huge amount of strategy you need to know when to push and when to wait and when to rotate.

         

        If you made the rotation random then games would come down to luck in who was closer when the hill moves.

         

        People need to stop complaining about games because they aren't good enough or smart enough to play them properly.

    • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
      Swaggin412

      You're missing the point, this post was meant as a suggestion to improve hard point. It has nothing to do with not being good enough to play hard point, in fact I'm more than capable of playing hard point at a high level(note I said making it dynamic would make it more challenging). As I stated before I was giving my opinion on how it could be improved. And hard point should no be compared to the other game types you listed, it's structured entirely differently. So before you decide to run your mouth I suggest that you think before you speak.

      • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random

        And how exactly would randomizing the spawns make it more fair or equal? You have no retort for my or any other statements on how diversifying the movement of the hardpoint wouldn't actually benefit the game.

         

        Rather the whole argument is "I don't like it when people beat me to the hardpoint because they know where it is going to move"

         

        King of the hill games have been around for a very long time and the hills always move in a predictable pattern they are always fixed and move in the same fixed points over the duration of the game.


        This makes the game equally fair for both sides. Anyone who complains about it loses often, can't grasp the movement patterns or moans about other teams setting up to control them.

         

        It's not running your mouth when you back it with facts. You're just a whiney child that can't handle the truth.

         

        I appreciate your suggestion and the fact that you have an opinion but it's wrong on so many fundamental levels.

        • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
          Swaggin412

          Once again think before you speak or make unintelligent comments. I'll say it again because apparently you're dyslexic and didn't read it the first time. I started I'm more than capable of playing hard point at a high level, so your statements of me whining because "I'm getting beat" are completely false and purely just your opinion. Whether you agree and or accept it point of the matter is that you're wrong.

          • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random

            My posts are intelligent, use facts to back them up strategies and legitimate reasons as to why it's better with fixed spawns.

             

            Your arguments attack with no defense and no response, and once again you post with no counter to my points.

             

            You want to talk intelligence. Make a counter argument and continue this as a debate.

            • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
              Swaggin412

              There is no debate or argument I'm telling you that your wrong, period end of discussion. Now if you cannot accept that then that's a personal problem you have to deal with.

              • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random

                How can I be wrong if you can't prove that I am wrong. Or give me a reason as to why I am wrong. Or better yet a convincing argument as to why you are right, or how it's better that way.


                You sir have personal problems and don't have anything intelligent or worth while to say.

                 

                I have given you ample opportunity to form a tangible rebuttle and all I get are verbal attacks haha and it's actually quite funny.

                 

                Someone doesn't agree with you on the internet and instead of being civil and trying to convince or discuss the differences you default to "I don't like it therefore it's bad", and "I'm not wrong you just are but I can't be bothered to prove it"

                 

                You sir and a sad sad little man trolling the webs and ended up getting mad yourself lolz!

                • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
                  Swaggin412

                  I'm not mad, you're the one taking the time out your day to post multiple long winded paragraphs over a thread. You Sir are mad, you're not entitled to an explanation I've told you that you're wrong what I'm saying to you Is not a debatable. I'm not asking you to accept it I'm telling you that's what it is whether you like it or not.

                   

                  So continue to keep posting and I will ignore you from this point forward.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random

    I definately see where you're coming from, and instead of addressing the point that phxs72 already has covered very well, I'll instead talk about the biggest, glaring bloody issue with Hardpoint at the moment:

     

    The goddamn spawns are broken beyond belief.

     

    On linear maps such as Slums and Hijacked, where the spawns are basically only on two points of the map, whatever team gets the good end of the spawns, win. Because the hardpoints are literally ten ft. away from the spawn at all times except for one.

     

    Now, that wouldn't be too bad if the system was fair and granted each team a spawn on each hardpoint in each end of the map, but that isn't the case. Especially not on Slums, where two hardpoints are right next to one spawn!

     

    Now, don't get me wrong, I don't hate the gamemode - it's actually my favorite. But it's so frustrating when a team wins solely because they're lucky and get the insanely random spawn points.

     

    Seriously. How much crap do you have to go through to flip those spawns? I've had dudes literally spawning behind me, in front of me and right next to me as I stood in the MIDDLE of the spawning area, and the spawns still didn't freaking flip.

     

    While at other times, I know my team is spawning behind me, closest to the hardpoint, and one dude runs in to the hardpoint, dies, and suddenly the spawns flip for no reason as the enemy team begins to spawn in where my own did half a second ago.

     

    It's impossible to try and take this game mode seriously when you can't even effectivily lock down a hardpoint and it's spawn.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
    r33k

    while i agree with it being random. it has to corrolate with spawns. since spawns are not random, neither can the hardpoints be. the ying and the yang. it is identical to HQ in that regard.

     

    try some multi-Team HP. its a little less of a kill fest since its 3 teams. as long as you are not a random playing againt 3 player clans, its fun.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
    trialstardragon

    They cannot really randomize them. They could randomize the pattern in which they are chosen but not the actual location. Each location is hard coded to that spot and defined in shape and size such as entry points. They would have to add in more defined locations in a title update.

     

    But like you I think they should be more random, the same way I felt the same about dropzone should have been more random and not on a set pattern in MW3.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random
    gomez615

    Hardpoint was designed for Competetive CoD which is why the HP doesn't change. Even if HPs were random in Public Matches you would still have teams with a player in the next possible location. There are only 4 HPs on a given map except for a few big maps that have 5 and those don't come up as much as the smaller more popular maps. I only play Merc Moshpit and HP only come around on the small maps.

     

    Anyway with a team 6 there's one player in the HP, 2 patroling outside and the other 3 are controlling spawns further out from the HP. When the timer gets to 15 or 20 seconds left the 3 players controlling spawn would move to the next HP, 1 going to each possible location. The HP would come up and everyone would rotate to it and assume their role.

     

    If the locations weren't static it would still be similar to the way it is now, if you're on an oraganized team.

     

    And when I say it was designed for Competetive I mean that it was made so it's both fun to play and fun to watch as a spectator. The fact that the HPs are static and teams know where to rotate to means that'll isolate the action which makes watching it more fun and it's easier for the commentator to monitor the game for the viewer.

     

    If you like the chaos factor of CoD then play FFA where it's nothing but chaos. In sports there aren't goals that are random they're in designated spots on the field so the teams can set up a defense and offense and a strategy to score. Think of it like that. I'm not against a random spawns in HP but that would basically be HQ and we already have HQ so go play that.

  • Re: Improve hard point - make hard point locations random

    I don't see why everyone wants things to be random, randomness takes away from skill and adds more luck into who wins. With preset locations for the hardpoint teams can prepare themselves for the next one by being set up before the other team. Both teams have equal opportunity to do this where as if it was random the team that wins can come down to luck in close games.