22 Replies Latest reply: Jan 20, 2013 1:43 AM by nuttin2say RSS

Network smoothing?

cdogmx

I watched a video on youtube (http://youtu.be/N_FteIoJGds?t=3m44s) where a guy discusses the network smoothing in BF3. Is this something that's in Black Ops 2? If so why not allow us to turn it off? Or is this just not a factor?

  • Re: Network smoothing?

    Good video, thanks for sharing.

     

    When Netwotk Smoothing is turned off then 3bar and 2bar players would stand no chance against 4bar players. Its there so people with high ping can have a smoother experience. In previous Call of Duty games when a player had a high ping then he had a disadvantage because he skipped on his screen and on other players screen, now in the new CoDs he doesn't have a disadvantage because he doesn't skips around anymore, which gives him a advantage of invisible frame skipping which causing (players popping out of nowhere, instant deaths etc.).

    • Re: Network smoothing?

      I would rather they just skipped around instead of smoothing.  

       

      Last night I played for a while and there were just too many instances of a guy appearing at the same time I died.

      • Re: Network smoothing?

        Me too, and this is why CoD4/MW2 were the better games connection wise. If someone had a bad connection then it was his fault, now you will be rewarded with invisible frames, enemies appearing out of nowhere and all this crap.

  • Re: Network smoothing?
    maccabi

    Actually i wish cod games did have this feature, just because it would show everyone exactly what lag comp actually does and stop these stoopid theories people keep coming with.

     

    and people can go back to complaining about lag like they used to in the good old days

  • Re: Network smoothing?
    cdogmx

    Yeah, I would definitely be interested in seeing the difference with it on and off. Hopefully they'll add it in future games.

    • Re: Network smoothing?

      Maybe on PC since PCs have access to dedicated servers. I highly doubt they will put the option to turn it off on consoles, if you turn it off in a host based system then everyone with a 4bar will and especially the Host will have a advantage over 3/2 bar players.

       

      I am not tryin to be a **** here but the reality is that the average console gamer doesn't care about his gaming experience, has a bad internet connection and plays on wifi, these people are getting destroyed if you turn it off. Which means less sales for Acitivsion.

       

      Network smoothing is basically lag compensation.

      • Re: Network smoothing?
        SitRepPro

        FixBlops2 wrote:

         

        I am not tryin to be a **** here but the reality is that the average console gamer doesn't care about his gaming experience, has a bad internet connection and plays on wifi, these people are getting destroyed if you turn it off. Which means less sales for Acitivsion.

         

        Yep.  I can pulverise my connection and saturate it with torrents and I can still play on COD far too well.  Only tried this with the MW3 but not BO2.

        • Re: Network smoothing?

          Yes, but the myth that throttling your connection gives you a advantage is not true. It gives you and your opponent a disadvantage, this is why some people say you have a advantage but its not really a advantage, it looks like a advantage on opponent screen but its not, it just makes the gaming experience bad for everyone.

          • Re: Network smoothing?
            SitRepPro

            Which is why I like tried it once and stopped as I don't want the game to play like when I played with Mexicans on COD4.  I just pick the better times to play where I think it would lag a lot less instead.  So far I've been dodging Saturdays which is a pain because of funky double XP so I'll have to see if it has improved.

            • Re: Network smoothing?

              I find playing in the morning is the best time to play this game, in the morning there aren't many clans and partys online so you get less laggy lobbies and not so many mlg "pdw" pros. In the evening i get paired with nothing but elite clans and all this crap, also the connection drops rapidity, 2 bars lobbies are standard in the evening.

      • Re: Network smoothing?
        maccabi

        FixBlops2 wrote:

         

         

        Network smoothing is basically lag compensation.

        Not directe4d at you just wanted to pick that one line up as a header

         

         

        This is basically what i've been trying (sometimes sucessfully) to explain to people on here for years, thats it ...thats all lag comp does it smooths out the visuals. Sometimes with results people dont like.

         

        but you're right we would never have the option in console play. Pc gaming is a total different beast i'd love for us to have a config file we could alter, it would make life so much easier but its never going to happen the ist party platforms sell the consoles on a semi  plug and play concept ( cos you know even consoles need to be correctly set up for use online mayb you seen me mention this before ) and game makers have to match that criteria , it goes back really to the arguement about showing pings as opposed to bars, the reasoning for this is while many people understand ping many more dont, and bars are universally used by everyone in phones for example so its a concept everyone understands. Giving the great unwashed access to config files that they can tinker without really understanding what they are doing is a disaster waiting to happen...You only have to imagine the big youtubers saying i did this and my connection is great and everyone following suit..it would be chaos.

         

        Interpolation (lerps)  that term i use alot is a horrible thing to set too much one way is just as bad as too much the other it doesnt really translate the better the ping YOU have the lower you want the setting,

        To give you an example without using actual setting values just a rough overview

         

        Say you have a sub 50ms ping to the host which most people would agree would be a good ping  if you set the value of lerps to match that ping, you'd end up with amazing hit detection as long as you lead your targets (as you have to remember their ping might not be as good as yours even in a all 4bar lobby the pings can be widly different . BUT the trade off is you'd actually see alot of players skipping about and you'd be bungee jumping /waping alot.

         

        If you set the value of lerps all the way to high  the game would look smooth as silk BUT you're hit detection would go to pot as most of the time you'd be shooting at interpolated players

         

        So you need a middle ground for everyone not a universal setting but one that gives the best trade off for each player of the lowest setting and highest setting for a ping in a certian range.  Theres no hard and fast rule here its mostly a set and see what happens type of thing and it doesn't always work exactly as intended because even with the best will in the world the you're playing over the internet law comes into play.. when you see as we did with mw3 the devs talk about dialing in settings thats basically one of the things they were doing.

         

        but to reiterate an early comment i made..give me a few days prolly middle of next week and ill actually make a video and show you guys what the game would look like simulated as to be without lag comp on.. and trust me it wont be pretty.

        • Re: Network smoothing?

          Unless you have access to turn the option on and off in the software, any emulation you may be able to create by giving an XBOX a 3k ping , or showing footage from other games isn't the same.

           

          When people are skipping around at least you know where they are at that moment and can still kill them.  A better solution is that if someone's connection causes them to have enough latency to skip, the server boots them.

          • Re: Network smoothing?
            maccabi

            Griefbot wrote:

             

            Unless you have access to turn the option on and off in the software, any emulation you may be able to create by giving an XBOX a 3k ping , or showing footage from other games isn't the same.

             

            When people are skipping around at least you know where they are at that moment and can still kill them.  A better solution is that if someone's connection causes them to have enough latency to skip, the server boots them.

            I can do it locally so what i do doesnt affect the rest of the lobby, i wouldnt do it if it impacted on anyone elses gameplay throttling or adjusting your connection to change ping would interfere with the other players in the lobby and also is a def no no on 1st party platforms tos. It also wouldn't be the same as you'd be expereincing a bad connection.

    • Re: Network smoothing?
      maccabi

      cdogmx wrote:

       

      Yeah, I would definitely be interested in seeing the difference with it on and off. Hopefully they'll add it in future games.

      That i CAN show you

       

      gimme a few days need to sort out getting the footage

  • Re: Network smoothing?
    nuttin2say

    Someone with better knowledge than myself, please give an opinion on something I experienced last night and something I thought about as a result.

     

    I popped into a lobby after a match had started last night - normal activity. The lobby played fine. There were I think two yellow bar players. No big deal. Next match, lobby remained mostly the same. Again, maybe two yellow bar players.

     

    The third match about 25% of the lobby rotates out and new players brought in between matches. Match starts and now there are maybe two or three four bar players. I'm flickering between two and three bars. I can't buy a kill. All the stuff we all complain about with mysteriously appearing players, entire mags passing through opponents, explosives detonating late, etc, etc. I keep hanging in there just knowing the host is going to migrate at any moment. I'm playing KC so you know the sky is the limit on kills and deaths.

     

    When I got killed the 18th time and still had only 9 kills myself, I decided I could go no further with this laggy lobby. So I backed out and, what do you know?

     

    Host migration screen.

     

    Now, I have a confession to make. Well, two confessions, one of which I have made in the past. The one from the past is that in previous COD games, it has been practically impossible for me to tell if I had host or not - even after leaving a lobby. Back during WaW and MW2 I got so paranoid of pulling host that if I remotely thought I had host, I would back out of the matches (which was why I would get so ticked if people dashboarded. I would take the loss rather than have the rest of the lobby suffer. Third confession: in MW3 I did dashboard more than ever as a protest to Ghandi saying they would never penalize dashboarders). Blah, blah.

     

    Anyway, so when I backed out of this match I clearly was the host up to that point. Furthermore, I am confident I was not the only player suffering as a result of this experience. One team (obviously not my team) was totally dominating the match. At 9 and 18, I was like the # 2 player on my team. Yeah. That bad of a match.

     

    But to go 9 and 18 you have to hang in there for a LOONG time. At least, I do.

     

    Yet the game never once saw a need to migrate the host?

     

    What that told me is that unless the host leaves the match, once the match starts, whomever was chosen as host remains host for the rest of the match - regardless of how bad the lag is.

     

    Please someone tell me that is not the case.

     

    But it was the case with this match and I'm trying to grasp why. I cannot imagine that the game scans for a suitable host only one time once the intermission timer has completed. I mean, the game clearly re-evaluates team creation repeatedly, and very rapidly, until the match actually begins. Surely the system is capable of re-evaluating host just as rapidly.

     

    The reason this stands out to me is because I would think that surely the game realizes that in one instant your connection is great but for the next ten minutes it may not be so great.

     

    More importantly, I find it amazing that the game was not checking connection quality during the match.

     

    Am I interpretting what happened correctly? If not, where did the system fail? If it is correct, why can't the system continue to verify lobby, specifically, host quality?

    • Re: Network smoothing?
      starbuckfrack

      Tonight I played a game where one guy emtied an entire clip into me and I didnt die or even get hit. But the SAME game a player killed me normally.

       

      Later that same game first person STILL didnt kill me a second time. He was going back to the same hiding spot

       

      No host migration occured.

       

      not in any way answeing your question but just adding more detail to it.

      • Re: Network smoothing?
        nuttin2say

        I hear you starbuck.

         

        Overall the matches haven't been unplayable. I get all four bar lobbies where a guy here and there I've flanked and put half a mag into and they don't die ... I can live with that happening a few times a match. That's the way it has been forever in COD games.

         

        Dunno. It's just one extreme or the other in BO2. Like I said, where it is now is okay overall. But when the wtf hits, it hits radically one way or radically the other way. Would kinda be nice if it were one or the other.