23 Replies Latest reply: Jan 6, 2013 5:02 AM by BACONndEGGS RSS

How to balance "Toughness"

Simply put, if FMJ is equipped on a weapon, it will bypass the "Toughness" perk on a player being shot at and will flinch like normal. Toughness seems to be a bit of a go-to perk for people running and gunning, and so far there are no counters to this perk. Simply integrating an "FMJ flaw" will bring a bit of balance to the perk and give players an equal chance against ones with Toughness.

  • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
    goofy56

    I see your point, you a good case.

    1. But once ppl unlock Cold Blooded, Fast Hands and Scavenger. They will use toughness less.

    2. Lag in this game actually makes this perk useless ( What is the whole point of using toughness if you aren't getting hit and flinching because of lag?

    I actually think that toughness would be better ofpossessing the ability to penetrate through walls and reduce flinch by 80% like in Black Ops I instead of having FMJ a separate ability.

  • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
    DaddyTinman

    I have to use Toughness to keep my bullets on target, regardless if the bullets hitting me are FMJ or not.  For me to get a two shot kill in Core with my FAL, I need to NOT flinch.

     

    I dance like a marinette on a string if I don't have toughness.  When I go to hardcore, I switch out Toughness for Cold Blooded.  I can't survive more than two shots in HC anyway so Toughness doesn't save me.

    • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

      Not alot of individuals have/will use FMJ. It's a whole point to equip FMJ for something that might or might not help you. It's not a problem when people can gain a fair chance when encountering you. Get the first shot in and you pretty much got the nail in their coffin, anyway.

  • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
    parnezzi

    honestly all you have to do is aim lower but with all the head glitching spots it gets annoying, but it needs a nerf or something

  • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

    i agree

  • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

    Who ****ing uses FMJ on anything but a sniper/LMG though?

    • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
      SitRepPro

      I don't even use FMJ on the LMGs anyway.  Stock and a suppressor is all I use unless I go for no perk challenge but I still won't be using the FMJ attachment when using the Primary Gunfighter Wildcard.  Penetration/wallbanging is easy for all weapons so it's kinda useless to to spend a point on an attachment that does something that's already easy to do.  It's kinda handy against scorestreaks but EMP grenades are awesome and I use Black Hat PDA over a launcher.

    • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

      That's also what I'm getting across, FMJ doesn't do much already. Giving it some advantages such as being a counter to Toughness might encourage individuals to use it more for "front-line" classes.

  • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

    oh please just play the dam game its there for.you to use as well if you choose not to use it don't ***** when others do.

    • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

      Way to fly off the handlebar from a tweak suggestion.

      • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

        Its doesn't need any tweaking every cod had some form of toughness weather it was called focus or w.e there was always a option to equip something to reduce flinch. Like I said use it or quit crying about ppl who do. Another reason your idiot blows fmj only increases bullet damage threw materials I bet your one of the players who thinks it's like stopping power adding more damage to bullets to kill faster

  • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
    Gerbera

    All Toughness does is reduce the recoil a bit if you're shot, not making the gun jump up so much...nothing that really NEEDS countering...

     

    People complain about EVERYTHING...

    • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
      parnezzi

      it doesn't just reduce it a bit it completely gets rid of it.

      and especially if you're not using it you'll notice a huge difference in the amount of kick goes away if your getting shot.

       

      but of course if you use toughness on all your classes you're gonna think it doesn't need to be nerfed

      • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

        It reduces it by some bit. It does not remove the effect completely. Its the most used perk but that does not mean it needs a nerf :S. Most people just don't need other stuff in tier 2.

         

        Scavanger? Screw that ill take somebody else his SMG. (they are all good except chicom)

        Cold Blooded? Who uses this?

        Fast Hands? Same useless perk as /\

        Hard Wired? Meh ill just counter there counter UAV by mine Counter UAV.

         

        So that leaves Toughness the only decent perk in there.

        • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
          trialstardragon

          LOL.. the only good perk in that slot. I use cold blooded more than I ever use toughness to protect against target finder noobs. I even use fast hands when using a sniper class so I can get my pistol out faster.

           

          When running a smg I use scavenger so I never have to worry about looking for a gun to pick up. So yeah the other perks have losts of reasons to be used over that one.

           

          Only people with poor aim need to use that perk to stay on target. Aim for the groin get hit a couple times and its a free headshot.

          • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

            I would like to counter post .

             

            Only noobs use Cold Blooded because people with good aim kill people who use target finder anyway.

            Fast hands I am not going to comment on since im a "noob" smg user.

            You use scavenger because you are lazy. Its not a good choice.

             

            People with good aim would like to have there aim to be as precise as possible. So its the best perk. But whatever makes you sleep at night

            • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
              trialstardragon

              Only noobs need toughness to lower the flinch from being shot. A good player can compensate for it and still make the kill.

               

              A smart player uses cold blooded to protect against the targerfinder and mms and the dual band. And those that use targer finder will find you way before you may ever see them. It will highlight a person from across the map.

               

              Not because I am lazy but because I do not want to have to switch to a weapon that does not have the same attachments I have. Mine are setup a way I like to use them. No reason for me to use someone elses weapon that clearly did not prevent them from dieing by using it.

               

              People with good aim do not need additional help to maintain their aim. Only those with subpar aim need such things.

               

              So no it is not the best perk in that slot. Just you have never ventured far enough away from it to really understand the pros of the other perks well enough to see how good they really can be.

               

              The same like how you probably was a stopping power user and thought it was the best perk to use all the time in mw2.

        • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
          SitRepPro

          Trixh wrote:

           

          It reduces it by some bit. It does not remove the effect completely. Its the most used perk but that does not mean it needs a nerf :S. Most people just don't need other stuff in tier 2.

           

          Scavanger? Screw that ill take somebody else his SMG. (they are all good except chicom)

          Cold Blooded? Who uses this?

          Fast Hands? Same useless perk as /\

          Hard Wired? Meh ill just counter there counter UAV by mine Counter UAV.

           

          So that leaves Toughness the only decent perk in there.

           

          Scavenger is handy if you don't want to pick up other people's guns because you run a suppressor and not everyone does.  Plus, it refills tacticals and lethals too.  So if you stay alive for a fair while in an equipment heavy match and you run Engineer, you get free points for destroying stuff with EMP grenades.  Couple that with Hardline and it's real handy if you run streaks from VSAT onwards.

           

          Fast Hands is good if you toss C4s I imagine but I've not really tried that technique as I prefer tacticals over lethals.

           

          Hard Wired you do not need as you can get around a CUAV by using a Black Hat PDA/launcher or Hunter Killer to take it out.

  • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

    Is there a counter to Cold-Blooded? Nope. Hard-Wired? Nope. Scavenger? Nope. How about Fast Hands? Still no? Why would Toughness need a counter when every other perk in that tier doesn't have one?

     

    It's fine.

    • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
      parnezzi

      hard wireds useless, cold blooded is borderline useless, and scavenger gives you extra ammo why would it need a counter? fast hands just makes the 2 maybe 3 grenades you have thrown out faster and weapon swaps faster, which pistols are stronger than most of the guns in the game and are pretty fast to draw out.

       

      toughness gets rid of flinch when being shot, which determines a lot of gunfights especially since its head glitch heaven on every map.

      • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

        Toughness is it's own counter. If you're tired of losing fights and the others are so useless why are you not using Toughness? I use it on a lot of classes, not all, but I also used Flinch in MW3 which no one cried about (no one of importance anyway).

         

        I disagree that all of T2 perks are useless, but I do think Toughness is used more because it has a more frequent use to the average player who is always fighting someone head-on and being fired back on. They all have situations they're useful in, it's just less common to need anything other than Toughness or Scavenger. Scavenger replenishing lethals/tacticals is enough to make me pick it up on more of my classes than Toughness.

  • Re: How to balance "Toughness"
    parnezzi

    nobody cried about it in Mw3 because it wasn't as drastic as toughness instead of your gun being kicked up from the groin to the head it went from middle torso to head.

     

    BO2 it goes from torso/groin to head to with toughness on neck to head. as of right now all FMJ does is make you waste less bullets trying to wallbang.

  • Re: How to balance "Toughness"

    I run n gun & never use cold blooded ppl who use a target finder cant aim half the dam time anyways so what they see a red diamond yet cant put bullets on target anyways. MMS is useless because im always moving I don't stop long enough for it to work on me anyways and I rarely see snipers using dual band. its funny you say ppl who use toughness can't aim but yet you just aim for the nuts and let flinch get you magic headshots lol. Im good I rather aim to get my kills then let flinch do all the work. But again its simple use toughness or stfu about ppl who do. Its in the game for everyone if you choose not to use it stop crying when someone does.