25 Replies Latest reply: Dec 5, 2012 4:34 PM by mn7_la RSS

GHOST impacting LAG

mn7_la

Okay - this just occurred to me.

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The amount of logic required to keep track of when a player running GHOST should be visible & when they shouldn't be must be pretty high. There has to be a timer to count the number of seconds the player is stationary or near the same location - and once the timer goes off a logic must be activated that will show the player on all enemy mini-maps.

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Does anyone here think this complex logic will have an impact on game performance - especially the lags? And if there are 8 to 9 players out of 12 running ghost - then there has to be those many calculations per second. And, given the game doesn't have dedicated servers, the host will have to do all of these calculations & pass down the information to the other 11 systems in the game.

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I feel that this might be one more reason for the higher lag-issues in this game - I may be wrong though (I'm not a performance-tester for graphics-intensive applications - I'm just a programmer by profession).

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MN

  • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
    BanHaMMer

    Interesting theory all the same.

    • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
      mn7_la

      I wonder if one of the devs or someone like Cutpurse would respond.. it's just a theory - and probably wrong - but if they do notice it & it does have an impact, they may be able to fix it.

      • Re: GHOST impacting LAG

        That would require Treyarch actually admitting it's a problem on their end, instead of telling us to rewire our home network, get a new ISP, and then sacrifice a live goat to the deity Vahn while chanting ancient encantations. 

         

        So, no...a dev won't reply in this thread.

  • Re: GHOST impacting LAG

    I think you're just butthurt about not being able to chase red dots around.

  • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
    ghamorra

    Stopped reading after the first sentence. You know what really throws the game into a backlog, people running around non-stop while spraying their SMGs. The rate of fire 12 people put out with SMGs on these cramped maps means the game has to double time it to keep up with the hit detection since the host can only send and recieve packets with one person at a time

     

    By your logic it would do the game better just to remove SMGs

    • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
      mn7_la

      The way I see it - SMGs were always there. Their RoF was always higher compared to other weapons.

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      What changed between MW3 & BO2 - IMO - was this GHOST thing. MW3 also had it's own share of problems including LAG. I understand that the number of players running an SMG in BO2 is far more higher as a percentage to those in MW3 - and I'm one of those converts (unwilling convert, though).

      .

      I don't disagree to your POV - but I think in some way the SMGs being OP-ed & the GHOST being nerf-ed IMO have contributed to the end-result - more people running around with SMGs.

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      You know.. they should put out a "TEST Lobby" where GHOST should be back to Assassin - just to see how many still prefer running around with an SMG. I know I won't.

  • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
    Pyric

    Or add dedicated servers. Seriously, the amount of other processes running during the matches are way more complex than the ghost perk. Even the process behind a bouncing betty is probably a little higher.

    • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
      BanHaMMer

      Pyric wrote:

       

      Or add dedicated servers. Seriously, the amount of other processes running during the matches are way more complex than the ghost perk. Even the process behind a bouncing betty is probably a little higher.

       

      Gotta disagree on this one, BB's are very slow to react compared to MW3. Modulating a player running Ghost would defo require more processing.

    • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
      mn7_la

      The bouncing betty processing can only impact the 1 (or in some cases more than 1) player that runs around near it. Given the host machine has to process the logic & send out updates to two (the victim & the other person that laid the betty down) or more systems - it doesn't have to flow that information across to all 11 systems all the time.

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      I don't know if anyone would be anti-dedicated-servers - but clearly, AV, IW & 3arch just don't seem willing to shell out the money (it's not just the capital expense - but the maintenance costs & upgrades, etc).

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      Is there a new process in BO2 that would impact the processing as much or more than Ghost-processing - that wasn't already present in MW3? I'm open to more ideas/theories.

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      MN

      • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
        BanHaMMer

        mn7_la wrote:

         

        The bouncing betty processing can only impact the 1 (or in some cases more than 1) player that runs around near it. Given the host machine has to process the logic & send out updates to two (the victim & the other person that laid the betty down) or more systems - it doesn't have to flow that information across to all 11 systems all the time.

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        I don't know if anyone would be anti-dedicated-servers - but clearly, AV, IW & 3arch just don't seem willing to shell out the money (it's not just the capital expense - but the maintenance costs & upgrades, etc).

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        Is there a new process in BO2 that would impact the processing as much or more than Ghost-processing - that wasn't already present in MW3? I'm open to more ideas/theories.

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        MN

         

        Yes there are many, but your theory is still sound.

  • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
    TheMime

     

  • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
    sennalike

    But the game lagged badly from day 1, and not many people had ghost back then.

     

    I think there is a case for too much going on affecting performance, but not ghost.  I think things like theatre, CoD casting etc are more likely to be culprits.

     

    In any case David V said he played flawlessly for four hours, so I think the lag must be in everybodies head.

    • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
      mn7_la

      Now, that is a compelling counter. Point accepted - I don't disagree... I thought they blamed it on "load balancing" and "match making" on their new servers..

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      and lol about the Dave.V 4-hr play..

    • Re: GHOST impacting LAG

      The very first default class had Ghost equipped, and most people tend to choose the first option if none are obviously superior to the others.

      • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
        sennalike

        True, I'd forgotten that.  I've only used ghost for one match (never again, pointless), but I did use UAV at first and near enough every time the enemy all showed up, which indicates to me not many used the class you mentioned.  Just my experience though.

        • Re: GHOST impacting LAG

          Even if nobody was using Ghost in a match, though, the software has to continuously check to see if that's still true.  Anything and everything that needs to be calculated at any given instant affects the load on the server.

      • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
        BanHaMMer

        Harv72 wrote:

         

        The very first default class had Ghost equipped, and most people tend to choose the first option if none are obviously superior to the others.

         

        This is true, so you could never really say Ghost was not being used, especially by BLOPs1 players starting BLOPs11. 90% would use default class/ghost until they were comfortable with the maps etc.

  • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
    robbierocket

    Bottom line is that people are coming out with their own solutions for lag but the devs have put all they've put in the game for a reason.

     

    The devs either will or won't improve the lag situation, this may be in or out of their hands, but if things like Ghost, small maps and so on have increased lag, that won't change, this game is the way they wanted it. Look at split screeners. The single most conclusive piece of evidence that lag is openly under-prioritised compared to allowing 2-on-a-screen in standard lobbies.

     

    They are the most common 1 bars and stutterers, nevermind the hitmarkers that never tell the truth.

  • Re: GHOST impacting LAG

    I can't believe Ghost has such performance impacting calculations. It can't be too stressing to check if someone is moving at a certain speed.

     

    Actual things that affected performance were stuff like shotguns in MW3 (IW admitted it, you can see frame drop clearly in Striker Infected) or Napalm Strike in BO (comparable to a power point slide show).

    • Re: GHOST impacting LAG

      Well..this is kind of similar to the concern about "theatre" being implemented in Black Ops.

       

      I remember people blaming the theatre mode on the lag problem because the game basically had to reccord every single players movement in every single game. That has to be pretty heavy, doesn' it? And they seemed to fix BO for the most part.

       

      Everyone be patient...let's see what patch 1.04 does.

      • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
        mn7_la

        Shelbox,

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        I don't beleive I'm being impatient - it's just a POV. The "Theatre" recording has to take some amount of band-width - that's a given. However, it needn't be real-time - as in after the game has completed, information can be shared between the various systems. [Have you noticed, both in MW3 & BO2, that if there was a host-migration, the theatre recording is either missing or split into 2 recordings - it's because the host changed & the theatre-info wasn't immediately sent to the other systems]

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        For actual game-play items, the host has to send real-time info to all the other systems and this info has to get stored somewhere. In all possibility, "Theatre" mode is not real-time (unlike CODCasting). I don't believe there will be too much of calculation or processing required for the CODCasting feature either - mainly because it simply relays the information across to one or more locations - it doesn't have a timer & it doesn't have any logic or calculations involved.

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        MN

    • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
      mn7_la

      neetlife,

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      It's not checking for just the co-ordinates & the timings of the 1 player using Ghost. It' checking that & when the timer lapses, the host has to send down the info to the enemy team if UAV is up.

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      I already ceded that I'm not a professional in the advanced-graphics performance-testing area - I earn a livelihood only as a programmer (& not on any graphics-intensive app either).

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      May be, like you say, it doesn't matter much. Or, may be it does.

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      MN

  • Re: GHOST impacting LAG
    IndyOldGuy

    Its all the Guardians that are placed on the small maps at the same time thats causing lag!!

    LOL