38 Replies Latest reply: Dec 9, 2012 12:30 AM by EliteKing RSS

Lag Compensation

EliteKing

i started off on COD3, then to WAW, MWR, BO and MW3.

 

the last four online MP games ive consistently had a 3 KD.

 

in BO2, lag compensation is killing me soooooo badly.

 

im not even blaming the other players, they arent doing it...its the connect.

 

 

 

perfect example, which happens frequently is: i get a bead on some poor soul, and i fire 1 buck shot from my remmington shotty and it nails him in his back, i rack it and the 2nd buckshot hits him on his shoulder, he turns around and hits me in 1 hit insta kill at a really weird angle.

 

i go to the kill cam....it shows him turning around after the 1st shot, while emptying a clip into me while going prone performing a drop shot.

 

how the fluck did that just happen...oh right, lag compensation.

 

this needs to be fixed.

 

why are people with superior connections being punished for the crap connection of other players.

 

we are paying for better connection for a reason.

 

Treyarch needs to fix this ASAP.

  • Re: Lag Compensation

    Is this not just a repeat thread of a repeat thread? It annoys me that those who have great internet connection think that others should suffer because:

     

    A) You pay extra for it?

     

    Can I just remind you this is a global game and internet speeds vary around the world! I live in the UK and as much as I want BT infinity at upto 76mb due to cabeling reasons I just can not get any more then 3.2 mb!!

     

    I am stuck with poor connection due to the fact large parts of the UK still use copper cables and the providers give us know other option! now I live in the UK which to most people in the world is a wealthy nation! but other countries around the world europe, asia etc may have very poor internet!

     

    With out the developers helping us people who are stuck with poor service there would be know reason to play on line, which would mean the developers would think our customer base is small there is no reason to develop games on line!!

     

    Maybe a suggestion is select region and not world wide option! your ping and connection will probably be quicker giving you a better gaming experience, just a suggestion?

     

    From what i hear most people in the USA playing blops 2 on the wii u are very happy with hit detection and game lag???? has something changed on the Wii U

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      7echidna7

      Know that feel man. In Australia we have the slowest Internet worldwide because our government puts all their money into 3G and 4g services.

       

      Just be thankful you're not gaming from a pocket wifi like myself. Not even broadband is available in my area.

      • Re: Lag Compensation

        This is the point I make! I know the USA are lucky that for most people they have good internet and 4G has been in place a while! the UK has only in the last month got its first 4G provider!

         

        The issue here in the UK, is unless you live in a major city such as London, Manchester, Birmingham then you can not get access to fibre optic internet which gives those cities upto 100mb-200mb connection!

         

        Faster internet is rolling out here at a slow pace but as a consumer we have to rely upon the providers updating their equipment and lines! internet is not cheap here and for 76mb you would be looking at £35 a month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i pay £10 for 8mb but due to one reason the max i am actually provided is 3.2mb on a great day!

         

        When i play on wii with clan members from the states my ping and connection takes a huge hit and most times it looks like your running through glue! and being shot round corners! but hey i still have fun!

         

        Being in Australia I guess you can be very remote so hope at some point the internet revolution comes to you too!

         

        please people stop the moaning about lag, I don't think there is much they can do to get around this issue without it affecting someone somewhere! as i said i think match making can be changed to regional which will help on finding a better and quicker game (ping) for you.

      • Re: Lag Compensation
        infinitlag

        7echidna7 wrote:

         

        Know that feel man. In Australia we have the slowest Internet worldwide because our government puts all their money into 3G and 4g services.

         

        Just be thankful you're not gaming from a pocket wifi like myself. Not even broadband is available in my area.

        You live in the outback? SOME SORT of broadband has to be avaliale? But the government is building that nbn thingy but to my house (Sydney) its not even planed yet.

        • Re: Lag Compensation
          7echidna7

          I don't live in the outback. I'm in Queensland on the coast. It's funny about that NBN thing. In my point of view it's a load of crap. People next door have adsl 2, the school across the road has adsl 2, but when I call and ask telstra for adsl normal or 2 they say the lines are to dirty to accommodate for my area and offer me mobile broadband. We don't even have 4g in my area but that's what they are concentrating on the most at the moment.

           

          I do live on a property though on the outskirts of my town. I look into my back yard and there's sheep and horses but I'm only 5km from the closest exchange (Telstras words but I do have an exchange and massive tower just down the road). Also is I go on adsl2+ exchange website to check for available ports in my area and there's more than 25 ports ready to be used but alas I still can't get Internet. Just a pocket wifi.

           

          They also say upgrades for adsl won't be brought to my area for another 2 years +.

          • Re: Lag Compensation
            infinitlag

            7echidna7 wrote:

             

            I don't live in the outback. I'm in Queensland on the coast. It's funny about that NBN thing. In my point of view it's a load of crap. People next door have adsl 2, the school across the road has adsl 2, but when I call and ask telstra for adsl normal or 2 they say the lines are to dirty to accommodate for my area and offer me mobile broadband. We don't even have 4g in my area but that's what they are concentrating on the most at the moment.

             

            I do live on a property though on the outskirts of my town. I look into my back yard and there's sheep and horses but I'm only 5km from the closest exchange (Telstras words but I do have an exchange and massive tower just down the road). Also is I go on adsl2+ exchange website to check for available ports in my area and there's more than 25 ports ready to be used but alas I still can't get Internet. Just a pocket wifi.

             

            They also say upgrades for adsl won't be brought to my area for another 2 years +.

            That goverment....

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      Rip_it_up

      I stopped playing mw3 on wii because if i didnt join in mid game the game would always choose me to be the host in the lobby.

      I have 100mb broadband and the host lag was dyer for me, Why should the game always choose me to be the host just because i happen to have fast internet?

      Im in the uk and 9/10 people in the lobby would be from the usa, the game never took into account ping times and therefore was broken in my book.

      If black ops 2 has the same ethos then ill trade it in, theres no excuse for such a unbalnced matching making system in 2012 regardless of user location.

       

      Online fps can run smooth on a couple of meg, and should'nt just use the faster the internet = host which it currently relies on.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    T-boss

    internet connection should do nothing more than decrease lag which makes the game more enjoyable. only lag taht should be compensated for is delay or time it takes for the other consules to know what you did. ping and information droprate for finding good connection games but have very little to do with lagcomp.

     

    lagcomp ingame should be measured by the time it takes to send a signal back and forth. thats it. all the other stuff i would use for connection quality/accressy which if bad, i would just avoid putting htem in games were it wont do well, and if there is none, the one with minimal problems.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    ichilenozo

    Theater mode and killcams have always MEAN NOTHING in COD. Please don't use this argument to justify any kid of lag argument as TM has always been laggy. I'm not saying that lag compensation is ok in this game, but using theater mode and kill cams don't help your argument. that's all.

    • Re: Lag Compensation

      ^^^^ This is right on the money.  Killcams mean nothing, they are approximations of what occurred (according to some so called "experts"). However there is some debate on theater mode and what it really is.  Part of my frustration is 3arch doesn't clear the air...they simple keep their mouths shut and let all these people who have no idea how the source code for the game really works, spout off on utube, forums, etc...

       

      So lag comp, no lag comp...killcams no kill cames...theater mode, no theater mode.  Why doesn't 3arch just tell us how it REALLY works?  So we can diagnose issues more accurately?   That's what pisses me off.  We are not asking them to divulge their algorithms or post their source code...just give us the overall way MP works to STOP ALL THE MISINFORMATION!

       

      However, the lag compensation tweeks they made in BO1 have not IMPROVED THE game for alot of people.  It really is an individual issue, but I do believe that the game makers make changes to matchmaking and lag compensation (rewind time) that aren't really tested...because hey, they can't simulate the internet.

       

      Which is why I"VE BEEN SAYING THEY NEED A PUBLIC BETA in order to dial in the settings before release.  As it stands now, we are beta testing a game.  Period. 

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      nintendon't

      Even without Theater Mode and killcams as proof, you gotta admit that there's a disproportionate amount of situations in the game where you shot first and should've won the gun fight but ended up losing.

      • Re: Lag Compensation

        Kind a wierd, huh nintendon't..Hmmm...where have I heard that the problem MAY get worse as time marches on?  lol..sorry man, just had to give you a little crap.

         

        Anyway, I thought I would post this.. this is from maccabi over at the xbox forums.  I'm not saying what he is asserting below is 100% correct.  I don't know and I really wish 3arch would publicly post what the code does. Still haven't seen a post from a dev regarding HOW it works.  Maccabi is the one who convinced IW that they had a flaw in their matchmaking system.  Apparently, he is a game developer and I do respect his opinion.  Anyway, here is response.  (Sorry for stealing your post mac, wanted to post this here in the Wii U forums also).

         

        All the video shows is the game is working as intended and people's continuing misconceptions about being behind the server and that somehow lag is now "lag comp" haven't dinimished.


        Your gamestate does not run on the same timestamp as the "server" it isn't supposed to everyones gamestate is slightly skewed this is what the point of lag comp is to remove the visual glitches associated with latency. How many times do people and the devs have to explain to people that the killcam and theatre are NOT accurate to your gamestate before it sinks in for people?. Theatre isn't what the "server" sees its a playback made from the actual timestamps in order they are received by the server. What you see on YOUR screen is a gamestate UNIQUE to you .


        The thing is when you die you would still have died if there was no "lag comp" system in the game the only difference is instead of complaining you died and blaming it on lag comp even though you shoot first you'd be complaining that you died due to lag as there wouldn't even be a player on your screen.



        I do find it funny tough especialy this video that the maker starts to say he was lagging, as was everyone else but anyways..


        the first "clip" the guy running towards him he gets the kill, granted the theatre reply puts the guy slightly forward but thats whats supposed to happen. You guys keep making all the videos showing what you think is proof the systems bust but all you are doing is proving the sytem working as intended, by giving each player a unique gamestate that is unique to them that gives the impression everyone else in the game is on the same ping/latency as them thats it. theres no mystery here no penilising a player with best money can buy internet ect.


        the run behind cover thing at 4mins is unfortunately one of the aspects of adding a lag comp system want of a better phrase into any game you get wtf moments, it cant be helped.That is caused by basic cant be fixed latency caused by playing over the internet.


        The problem is nowadays with killcams and the ability to play back events is people instead of just accepting they died analyse it and find faults so instead of saying oh i died and moving on will come onto the forums and scream blue murder that lag comp killed them.


        you can all wave this video of yet more proof but end of the dy im afraid it is just like all the others and isnt.

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      T-boss

      play MW2, and you will notice the difference.  granit this lagcomp is ruffly on par with BO's, lagcomp but with different issues. i havent gotten way off things form lagcomp but i have gotten occasinaly WTF moments that cant be explained except by lagcomp. but threads have them as more common then they really are.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    AlienTard

    Been playing CoD since the beggining and always have a higher than 3.0 K/d ratio. In BO2 im hardly getting close to 2.0 K/D ratio with 3 bars green. There is no way that I can try to fight a guy, on a front to front confrontation,I always finish up dead...When i see the kill cam, is like that guy has like a 1 sec of advantage over me. It always feels like im in a huge disadvantage with 3 bar gree no matter what, however, when I get 4 bars green i always do great...I easily win front to front combat and somehow it feels like im the one with advantage.

     

    Try been in the other side(3 bars green) so you can see how much more it suck to be there.I can agreed that lag compensation is very bad on BO2, however, there is no way that the guys on 4 bars have a disadvantage over the guys on 3 bars.

    • Re: Lag Compensation

      They really should just remove killcams and theater mode.  Let's keep that out of the discussion...that is NOT reality.   The only thing that knows "reality" is the host.  That's where all of the decisions are made, apparently.   I don't know what the problem is.  Someone found a post from JD (lol, remember him!!) when BO1 first came out that explained how it all works.  (read vims post, llink provided below if interested).  

       

      I've always wondered if the host is being overloaded.  According to JD, the only thing that has changed over the years is matchmaking algorithms (Don't yell at me, I didn't write the freakin code guys.  I'm as interested as anyone to figure out what the problem is).  But something else that  has changed is the number of "things" that are happening at once...more killstreaks (missles, choppers, grenades, sentry guns, etc...), more rendering, more and more....ALL at once, etc...  I just wonder if the CPU is being overloaded and can't keep up.  I don't know...I know people are having issues, the devs blame it on the internet...the gamers blame it on the devs...and nothing gets figured out...hey, just like congress!

       

       

      http://community.callofduty.com/thread/200551964?start=140&tstart=0

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    EliteKing

    i remember back to last year when MW3 first came out...

     

    anybody remember?

     

    yeah, it had tons of lag in it, to the point where i called it MW3R.

     

    that was fixed, after a week or 2 of pure complaints from basically everybody in the community.

     

    im calling Activiison support tomorrow...maybe other victims of lag compensation will join in?

     

    heres the number 1(800) 225-6588

     

    who knows, but i'll post about what happened on my end.

     

    this game can be epically great if the lag comp gets fixed.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    fissuresofrequent

    Only time I really noticed lag comp was when I played with the wii remote. I was a big victim in MW3.

     

    Switch your search preferences to best if you haven't but that probably won't do much since of the little player count.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    Padiego

    am i the only one here who is not getting screwed by lag comp in bo2? looking back at theater mode, i think lag comp favors me, since a lot of times im shooting at air. wait...it favors me in bo2....guys i think you're just using lag comp as an excuse for being outplayed, kind of like how i use dual analog aim assist as an excuse :D ;P

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      nintendon't

      I dunno man. Something's not right..it's not as bad as MW3 but still. In some lobbies I'm unstoppable while in others it feels like I'm shooting paper balls.

       

      EDIT: I was playing against Australians with pwnsweet tonight and it's safe to say that lag comp advantage is alive and well in this game. I won almost every gun fight and had a 3-4 KDR on a ONE BAR for 3 games in a row lol.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    EliteKing

    ok so.....i feel kinda stupid...

     

    but i just did this tonight and the results have been better than the normal, from what normal is on this game to me...

     

    what did i do exactly?

     

    i put my U in the DMZ of my router.

     

    so its pure naked connect going straight in to the U.

     

    idk how, or why i forgot to do this earlier...but yeah

     

    another idea to help was the idea of "Buffer Bloat."

     

    yeah i said it, big whoop wanna fight about it?

     

    so what this does is slow down the load in your router and causes what is a lag compensation like symptom to the victim.

     

    Activision can do nothing about it.

     

    your ISP will deny it.

     

    you and only you can manually fix the stuff in your more advanced than usual settings.

     

    post up, lemme know.

    • Re: Lag Compensation
      EliteKing

      ok, nm.

       

      well, it helped.

       

      but it was more like spraying perfume on a skunk.

       

      DMZ your U.

       

      im still diggin into Buffer Bloat

      • Re: Lag Compensation

        So for those folks who think you are getting penalized for having a great connection, this kind of says the opposite.. You opened up all the ports to the u, with no firewall in between the u and your broadband provider.  And it got better?

        • Re: Lag Compensation
          EliteKing

          not entirely...

           

          im not getting 1 hit that much anymore which is a good thing......and i am feeling each bullet when i die.

           

          its the fact that i feel slower and i am slower and everything about me is slower.

           

          i see a guy running, i aim at him, he sees me and aims at me, i get 5 shots off, he gets 2 and im down.

           

          i get like 4 or 5 hitmarkers and nuffin.

          • Re: Lag Compensation

            Treyarch will blame that on simple lag.  Not anything in their software.  Believe me, I've been trying to tell them that something is "off" and the game doesn't play like it did in previous titles.  It started on the xbox with BO1 but got better over time.  Their explanation is that they banned certain hosts from being hosts (not banned them in terms of playing) and as they got more data from online play, they were able to eliminate "crappy" hosts.   Hence, it got better overall.  MW3 was one of the worst when it came to instakills and "feeling" like you are a second behind.  It did get better over time though with MW3.   And so here we are, at the beginning of BO2 and the same thing is happening, although the wii u doesn't experience to the degree the xbox does, but mainly because there are hundreds of thousands more players who are online.

             

            They contend they haven't changed ANYTHING but matchmaking algorithms.  Antilag has been in the game since the beginning of the series. There is nothing different about their network code and that this is simply the nature of online gaming (latency).    They contend their is NOTHING in the code that punishes a player for having good internet or being host except that fact that if you are host, you do get some artificial lag to compensate for the old days of host=god.  That's all they have publicly stated.

             

            Bottom line, it really doesn't matter what I believe or you believe, it's what the devs believe.   And so far, they see nothing wrong with the networking layer of the game.  It's the nature of "online gaming".  Some win, some lose.  How that is decided is beyond me.

            • Re: Lag Compensation
              EliteKing

              while that host = God was true for WAW and MWR........host = crap for BO and MW3.

               

              ive never been host on any games and BO2 is the only game doing what its doing.

               

              im frustraded.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    Linyao

    Does Lag comp apply to hardcore?

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    asystole

    I see some of my old friends here...i see you bringing up the same issue as the other platforms.

     

    I have bad news:

     

    This will never get fixed. This was introduced in BLOPS, (on the other platforms), and people who pay for decient internet will always suffer in this game. The only true fix is dedicated servers. Like in BF, when information hits the host at the same time, many times both players die together.

     

    No proof? Go back on the updates for blops and mw3 that had updates to address "host issues"

     

    If you are the host, you, and your entire party suffer. P2P connections using one machine lags the host period.

     

    Anyone tells you that it does not exist simply does not understand the system, or is a fanboy, or works for the man who owns the game.

     

    It applies to all game modes.

     

    test it: play in your prime time. then play in the morning, say when you are connected to those mostly overseas. You will find in those morning games you can kill everything, even to the point you cannot believe what you did. Why? the compensation works in your favor.

     

    This is why all talk about skill now becomes futile.

  • Re: Lag Compensation
    TheMime