45 Replies Latest reply: Dec 20, 2012 2:37 PM by lonogottagun RSS

A Thoughtful Negative Review

lonogottagun

Most negative reviews can either turn into too much of a rant or become so general that they are unhelpful (ie: this game sucks!).  I am going to attempt to write an intelligent and helpful review that will be almost entirely negative because of the flaws and problems I see in this game that are central to the experience of the player.  My review will focus entirely on multiplayer since that is all I have played and, if we are honest, it is why almost the entire community purchases the game at this point.

 

Now, to earn a little clout with those reading this review, I have been playing Call of Duty since the very first title released for PC back in 2003.  I have played every single release since.  I made the change from PC to XBOX when World at War came out.  My experience with World at War was challenging because I no longer had my mouse and keyboard.  After a few months of playing World at War I got my groove and have had a good experience with every release so far.  Up until the release of Black Ops 2, I enjoyed World at War the most with MW2 and MW3 coming in second place.  The first Black Ops suffered from poor spawns and irritating lag compensation, but it was still somewhat enjoyable to play.  Also, keep in mind that for MW2, MW3, and even the first Black Ops I had a steady k/d of about 1.20 and a good win ratio, ranging from 5.00 to as high as 9.25 on MW3.  So, needless to say, I became an above average player that won quite a bit more than I lost.  My k/d was never very high because I preferred objective game modes over camping in team death match.  This is why my win ratio is high and my k/d is average.

 

Fast forward to today. Black Ops 2.  Where to begin?

 

First, lets start with the look of the game.  The movement, frames per second, and textures are, in my opinion, a step up from the previous Black Ops.  It seems smoother and brighter, and the HUD as well as guns look better.  This is just my opinion, but I do think most people would agree there is a smoothness to the game that feels nice in comparison to the first Black Ops.  Now, this is about as much as I can say that will be positive about the game.  I also really like the new class building system of 10 slots for whatever you want and think it's a huge step forward for multiplayer, and I hope future COD titles include it.  You want 4 perks instead of 3?  Go for it!

 

Second, lets talk about the overall feel of the game.  At first, the smooth frames per second and better aesthetic made me think the game was going to run better than the first Black Ops.  I quickly discovered I wasn't just wrong, but that it was actually worse than its predecessor.  I play with some very skilled players, some that make me look amateurish with their immensely high k/d, and even they have barely been able to maintain even k/d in this game.  Why? What's the problem?  What's so different about this game versus all the other Call of Duty releases up to this point?  Two words: LAG COMPENSATION.  Because they have kept an ultimately unhelpful auto kick for team killing in Hardcore you are forced to play Core unless you want to get kicked from games for simple accidents or teammates running into your score streaks.  Why am I talking about Core vs Hardcore when I just said the problem was Lag Compensation?  Because Core requires a high amount of bullets as well as accuracy to kill efficiently.  And when Lag Compensation takes over, you are basically at the mercy of everyone else's connection and will find it very difficult to land a kill.

 

Essentially, this is how Lag Compensation works: John has a fast connection but Billy doesn't. John's experience is therefore altered to make up for his "advantage", which in turn gives Billy a fair shake.  So when John starts to shoot Billy, there is a delay, and Billy has a few extra milliseconds to react.  How this plays out when you are in the game is this:  You round a corner, have the jump on a guy, start shooting him, and then you drop dead.  You watch the killcam, and it turns out you only shot maybe one bullet before dying, not the 3-5 you thought you did.  What happened to you was Lag Compensation.  The player that killed you probably had a slower connection than you, so he is given a slight advantage.  This is why some games you can feel like an unbeatable god, and others you feel like you're playing against wall hacking aim bots because all you do is come around corners and die.  For those of us with faster connections, our experience is almost entirely the latter.

 

Now, there are people who defend Lag Compensation, saying it isn't fair to give an advantage to those with faster connections.  While this may be a valid point, it is not a convincing one.  Why is it not convincing?  Because you are just changing you gets the advantage.  And not only that, you are hurting the experience of any player with a good connection.  When I played Quake 3 on my crappy old 786 PC with slow internet, I just figured out how to play with my disadvantage, and actually I got quite good. I didn't suddenly expect everyone else to be nerfed or slowed down in order that I could get as many kills as them. Changing who has the advantage in this situation is also unfair because you are going against what every gamer in existence is used to.  Players with slow connections know and expect to have a tougher time.  And Black Ops 2 should be a safe haven for them right?  A great experience?  Wrong.  All it's doing is making those of us with fast connections stop playing, so the goal posts are just going to get moved.  So now the guy with a mediocre connection is suddenly the guy with the best connection, and he is going to start to have a worse experience.  In other words, there is always going to be someone with a slower connection and someone with a faster connection.  So the experience of all players will be ever changing.  There is no consistency, no standard, no constant.  This is what makes the game so frustrating to play.  You go from having a good experience and feeling like your first 3-4 bullets actually hit, to feeling like a worthless player, shooting blanks, falling to your death around every corner.

 

The reason I mentioned being "forced" to play Core, is because Hardcore would help with some of this.  Because you have to shoot a player so much in Core, Lag Compensation can make it seem impossible to get a kill.  If you are on the bad end of Lag Compensation, you will be helpless to change anything.  In previous titles, if I was having a bad game, I could make alterations.  If I'm not getting the jump on players, I'd switch to an SMG.  If I am getting the jump on players but not killing them fast enough I might switch to a high damage AR or maybe the same SMG with rapid fire.  I tried all my usual audibles when having a rough time in Black Ops 2, but it doesn't matter.  Everyone I play with was saying the same thing, "There is nothing I can do."

 

Now, before moving on from the topic of Lag Compensation, there is one final thing I'd like to say about it.  There is something inherently wrong with altering the experience of a player purely because their internet connection is better.  The nature of online gaming has always been one where those with slower connections have to deal with their lot in life.  But nobody is actively giving them a disadvantage, it is just the result of varying connection speeds.  Actively giving someone an advantage over another player is, in one sense, cheating. And in a even greater sense, it is more unfair than just letting the chips of connection speed fall where they may. Many have said that Lag Compensation is present in all of the COD titles.  While I have the "I swore I shot first" experience from time to time in previous titles, it is basically every gun fight in Black Ops 2. So something is dramatically different.

 

Third, lets talk about spawns.  When players start complaining about spawns and getting shot in the back they are usually met with a response like this:  "It is very difficult to have consistent spawns with how much people move and change location."  Okay, that seems like a fair response, except it's a cop out that hopes to excuse a bad spawn system.  If you want proof for how broken the spawn system is, play Nuketown, against Bots, and camp on one side of the map.  My buddy and I tested this.  It was just me and him versus 6 bots, and we never crossed over to the other side, in fact, we never went past the school bus.  And still, without fail, the game would consistently, at random times, spawn a couple enemies behind us.  This is why you can get caught in a spawn cycle where, even though you are spawning in different locations on the map, you take a few steps and get shot in the back. This little Nuketown experiment should make it crystal clear to any skeptic that the spawns are poor.  Not to mention that almost every map the spawns are incredibly easy to control, and many games turn into "who can spawn trap the other team first".  No creative ingenuity has come to the realm of spawning in any of the Call of Duty titles, so this isn't necessarily just a Black Ops 2 problem.  However, it is quite frustrating to have the same problems persist in every release.

 

Now, to conclude this little review.  The question has to be asked:  How could it be this bad?  How could they make a game with so many problems, so many flaws, and so many complaints after having 2 years to make it?  The answer is:  I honestly don't know.  People blame the deadlines, claiming that having to make a game every two years is too short a time to iron out all the bugs.  But we aren't talking about bugs and glitches (I haven't even had time to notice them)  We are talking about a game that is essentially broken.  When a 10 year veteran like myself cannot go positive or equal with k/d in almost every game I've played, then something is wrong.  I did not suddenly become a terrible player. All of my 50+ friends that play this game did not suddenly become horrendously bad at this game.  They have changed the very core of the gameplay and just like the first Black Ops, have turned many people away.  Not because we don't like the maps, the guns, or the gadgets, but because we are defeated before we even start.  Our fate is determined not by our strategy, skill, or in-game decisions.  It is determined by an arbitrary "compensation" that ultimately decides who will win and who will lose.

 

And if you read this and think I'm crazy or think all of us who are complaining are off base, think about this...  Why do they push so hard to motivate people to pre-order?  Why do they push so hard to get you to purchase a season pass for the DLC?  Why are they seemingly more concerned with getting your commitment and money prior to any reviews or consumer feedback?  Could it be because they know the game is sub par and most people are going to spurn the DLC?  Could it be because, just like the new Medal of Honor, negative reviews actually keep people from purchasing?

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    the tl;dr - the lag comp is bs in this game.

     

    yes

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
    supervelous

    that was long (as my reply will be), and I read MOST of it.  And I agree with most of it.  And am glad you put it in a non-ranty, intelligent manner.  Too many people say "this game sux@!" with no reasoning and it sounds like they're just whining because they're doing bad.

     

    I also had my moments of feeling I got the short end of the lag comp stick in MW3, but it was moments.  It was a gunfight here or there, it was a bad game out of 20-30 I'd play a night.  Ninety-nine percent of the time in MW3 when I died, I could watch the killcam and say either "I made a mistake", or "this game sucks because of Final Stand, etc". 

     

    BUT even if you hate certain things like ACR's or MP7's or deathstreaks in past games, in my opinion everyone has access to it so you can't really say they're unfair, even if you disagree with their inclusion into the game.  In MW3 I hated deathstreaks, lethal support streaks, FMG 9's, quickscoping, but I felt on the connection side of things, FOR ME (I know some people had horrible MW3 experiences) things were fair. 

     

    In this game so far, in 75% of my matches, I encounter multiple instances, or the entire match, where I feel like it isn't "fair".  Got the jump, shot the first shots, 5-10 hitmarkers, instant death...killcam not only did I maybe fire 1 bullet, but the killcam is jumpy/stuttery. 

     

    At first I ignored it and thought maybe it was the whiney sore loser in me, but then I started hearing it from all my friends, Youtube commentators whose opinion I respect, tons of people on the forums. 

     

    People might say well I am mad that my stats aren't as good as MW3, but that's not the case.  In fact, I was WORSE at this point in MW3 than I am now.  I had a negative KD in MW3 up until somewhere around 10,000 kills when I broke even, and ended up with over a 2KD.  But I was horrible at first....BUT it was due to me making mistakes, not knowing the game, etc.  I didn't feel like my connection was holding me back.   I watched killcams to learn from my mistakes, learned the guns/maps, watched good players, and eventually ended up dropping 200+ MOABs and rarely having bad games. 

     

    And my stats aren't even bad, I have a 1.7 KD, and since release day it's likely over 2.  I had a 1.2 KD in the pre-release 3+ days the game was online because the lobbies were mainly consisting of legit pros and beast Youtube players.  The connection was bad then too but I attributed it to the fact relatively few people had the game.

     

    There are other things I don't like about the game, maps like Yemen with way too many buildings and windows, sniping is too easy/forgiving, hip fire is too deadly...but considering everyone has those things, I still consider it fair, and can adapt.

     

    When someone sees me before I see them when we both come around the corner, IMO that's not fair, and it's one thing I can't tolerate long-term.  I am not giving up on this game, I think it could be great.  But as of now, FOR ME and my connection, it's almost unplayable.

     

    I am very happy for anyone who is getting a good, fair experience playing this game, and I hope to get the same soon.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    Im not gonna read all this. NEXT!

    • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
      supervelous

      Cliff notes on both our TL:DR posts.

       

      Him:  I like Call of Duty, it's always been good to me, I was above average.  Lag comp has made this game unplayable for me and many of my friends.  Here's how it works, you shoot first then die instantly because the game's net logic gives a boost to bad internet connections.  Why should better internet connections be punished, it's unfair.  In the past, good internet was an advantage in online gaming.  If you had bad internet and were at a disadvantage, well that's your fault for having sucky internet.

       

      ME:  I agree, I had very few problems in MW3, I sucked at first but almost always knew why I died and it was rarely connection.  Now in Black Ops 2, many times I feel I am dying due to connection.  I can tolerate other bad things about the game, but if I don't feel the experience is "fair", I cannot deal with that.

      • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
        lonogottagun

        supervelous wrote:

         

        Cliff notes on both our TL:DR posts.

         

        Him:  I like Call of Duty, it's always been good to me, I was above average.  Lag comp has made this game unplayable for me and many of my friends.  Here's how it works, you shoot first then die instantly because the game's net logic gives a boost to bad internet connections.  Why should better internet connections be punished, it's unfair.  In the past, good internet was an advantage in online gaming.  If you had bad internet and were at a disadvantage, well that's your fault for having sucky internet.

         

        ME:  I agree, I had very few problems in MW3, I sucked at first but almost always knew why I died and it was rarely connection.  Now in Black Ops 2, many times I feel I am dying due to connection.  I can tolerate other bad things about the game, but if I don't feel the experience is "fair", I cannot deal with that.

         

        YES

         

        Read this if you don't feel like reading my lengthy review

        • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
          DerekFrost

          I liked the lengthy review it was very intelligent and it completely sums up my issues with the game thus far. It's an amazing game but the lag comp ruins it for me. Also I would like to add that hip firing IS OP as heck (as the other guy stated) even my friends online agree that it's almost pointless to aim your gun in this game.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    Here is what I would like to know.  I've heard people say that the lag comp algorithm DOES NOT try to level the playing field based on their connections.  Others have said it does introduce lag into those players who have a better connection than others.  What's the truth here?  I've not found anything that actually confirms either point of view???????

    • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
      supervelous

      here's the thing, no scientific study has been done.  So there's no 100% lab tested confirmation that bad connections are getting advantages.

       

      But someone in MW3 made a great vid showing their in-game death vs the killcam death, and difference in when shots were fired, player positioning, hit markers, etc. 

       

      I have heard though you can't 100% trust killcams, so I guess the only way to really do a scientific test is for head to head encounters to be recorded from each side (gameplay recorded at my house and your house when we go head to head) and compare the encounter frame by frame. 

      • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

        Hey super,

         

        I guess I was talking about code explicitly written to take a players connection and based on the lobby either buff or nerf it.  Surely 3arc can confirm that exists without giving away the store or any IP?  

         

        If no code exists, I agree with your assertion about a test to determine what is going on.  I'm also confused by all of the "killcams don't show what's going on" and "what's on your screen isn't reality".  Ok.   Then if they aren't where my monitor says they are, where in the hell are they?  lol  Surely, some cpu somewhere knows the position of the enemy player.   Right?

         

        And if it's the host, and the host is the only one that has an "accurate position of x,y coordinates...then why aren't hosts dominating??

         

         

        So many questions...so few answers...

        • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
          GunSHEEP65

          The hosts are being compensated too. Usually much harder then people who are connecting to them. This is why you see host migrations. The host gets tired of being one step behind and getting it handed to them. So they disconnect....and in the best case you migrate. In the worst case they just dashboard and you are left with a loss with no score.

      • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
        TightNinja1

        Great post OP I agree 100%

         

        I would not be so mad at this game if HC HQ and HQ DOm were in it. I also like to play hard core not becasue it takes less bullets but because lag is less of a factor.

         

        I will be trading this in if the do no add more hardcore objective modes.

         

        And don't get me started on lvl 37 flak, 40 tac insert and 55 ghost.....what happened to my cod points?  Why give us tokens when equipment isn't unlocked until a certain level anyway?

      • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

        This game sux. Had to do it. LOL. Lag comp SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS. Otherwise graphics are GREAT. Even better than MW3. In MW3 sometimes it was hard to spot players in the clear open. Even more so if they are in a shaded dark corner. So far much better in BO2. The spawns are MUCH better than Mw3. It still has those I just spawned momments but nowhere near MW3. So far the hit marker/ detection is the main problem with this game. Besides the damn quickscope. And of course the people ALREADY whineing that guns be nerfed. Fix the hit markers and leave the damn game alone. Overall you guys did a good job with this game. I'm no fan of pick 10 but oh well for me. Fix hit detection, NERF lame whiney players and not guns and put nuketown in rotation to be played in all game modes. And one final thing Activison, A BIG THANK YOU FOR REMOVING FINAL STAND. At least so far it seems gone. Lets keep it that way. Fix lag comp/ hit detection and leave this game the way it is. You did a pretty good job with this one. DONT FIX what isnt broken.

      • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
        Nubdub

        supervelous wrote:

         

        here's the thing, no scientific study has been done.  So there's no 100% lab tested confirmation that bad connections are getting advantages.

         

        But someone in MW3 made a great vid showing their in-game death vs the killcam death, and difference in when shots were fired, player positioning, hit markers, etc. 

         

        I have heard though you can't 100% trust killcams, so I guess the only way to really do a scientific test is for head to head encounters to be recorded from each side (gameplay recorded at my house and your house when we go head to head) and compare the encounter frame by frame.

         

        There is an easy test. Observe the gameplay when you have host position. You will notice every encounter you have a .5 second or more disadvantage plus it takes entire clips to take someone down.

    • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
      adw1983

      I have long experience with 3 burst weapons, as I try to only use semi-automatic weapons, but fall back on 3-round burst weapons at times.

      10 000 kills with M16 in CoD4

      2 000 kills with FAMAS in MW2.

       

      This is my first experience with SWAT556:
      It took me about an hour of using it to realize that it is capable of three-hit killing.

       

      With a 4 bar connection, I experience the following with the SWAT556 in burst mode:
      I fire a full burst into a slowly strafing enemy.

      Then I either get killed, or have to fire another burst.

       

      Almost every single time I fire a full burst directly on an enemy without my sight leaving the target, I do not get a kill.

      But in a local match versus recruit bots, I noticed that it ALWAYS killed in one burst.
      ALWAYS.

      EVERY SINGLE TIME I hit a bot on my screen, I hit it.
      I notice, however, that there is a native lag in the game of about 0.1 seconds;

      You can fire shots after bot sniper has killed you, suggesting that there is a core delay on top of or masked by latency.

      This is most noticable versus bots in a local game: With a sniper rifle, you can headshot a bot sniper and then get killed, never firing the shot in the killcam.

       

      So I did a match of free for all, and wrote down the times I KNEW I was on target for a full burst and still did not get a kill.


      Then I went to theater mode to investigate.

      Five times I should with 100% certainty have a kill in one burst, three of those times I should have won the fight with the second burst with 100% certainty.

      First case: The enemy isn't even in my sight, but I get one hit.

      I burst again, behind the enemy, and get one more hit.

      He kills me.
      In the ingame scenario on my screen, I fired two bursts directly into the enemy from a diagonal angle as he WALKED up a staircase.

      But as seen in the theater mode, I fired behind this walking enemy on the server.

       

      Second case: The enemy isn't even in my sight, and I don't get a hit on the theater mode.
      I die.

       

      Third case: The enemy killed me after my first bullet was fired in theater mode.

      Problem is, I fired two full bursts at him on my screen, 5 or 6 bullets fired!

       

      Fourth case: I never even fired my gun.
      Problem being, I fired a full burst before I died.

       

      Fifth case: Fired so far behind the enemy I couldn't have hit him.

      Two bursts wasted on a wall.

       

      ... I really wish I had a PVR recorder.

       

      Something is causing me to desynch HEAVILY on a 4 bar connection:

      At 50 ping, my connection appears to be 200+ping -- AND it doesn't even synch my artificial lag with the server events!!!

       

      They should return to client hit detection, but apply "server hit priority":

      Deny clients hits on shots fired after their death to prevent bullshit.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
    lonogottagun

    supervelous wrote:

     

    Cliff notes on both our TL:DR posts.

     

    Him:  I like Call of Duty, it's always been good to me, I was above average.  Lag comp has made this game unplayable for me and many of my friends.  Here's how it works, you shoot first then die instantly because the game's net logic gives a boost to bad internet connections.  Why should better internet connections be punished, it's unfair.  In the past, good internet was an advantage in online gaming.  If you had bad internet and were at a disadvantage, well that's your fault for having sucky internet.

     

    ME:  I agree, I had very few problems in MW3, I sucked at first but almost always knew why I died and it was rarely connection.  Now in Black Ops 2, many times I feel I am dying due to connection.  I can tolerate other bad things about the game, but if I don't feel the experience is "fair", I cannot deal with that.

     

     

    Read this if you don't feel like reading my lengthy review

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    First of all: nice review ... 'your work is appreciated'

     

    Second of all: You only talked about 2 bad things: lag compensation and spawns.

     

    - You made clear what lag compensation is and now I understand why it's fustrating for a lot of gamers. But personally, I can live with it. It happens from time to time (let's say 2 times a game for an average player), but it's not the whole team, it depends on the situation and actually, you also have this advantage/disadvantage for your connection. So you can say 'he has an advantage', while the next encounter with an enemy you could say 'I have an advantage'. It is balanced, it probably won't affect your average kills/deaths or wins/losses.

     

    - I personally don't think the spawns are a 'big' probleme either. I only had this problem on one map, which is Terminal. Maybe Nuke town to, but I don't play that map, just because I never liked it anyway.

    Most of the other maps are quiet big, so it is not that easy to get to the other spawn and stay there for a very long time. (if it happens, in this case: hate the player, not the game).

     

    And last of all I also wanted to say that Black Ops 2 is a great improvement towards BO1 and is definitely better than MW3. In my eyes MW3 was not finished. You could climb over one object, but you couldn't climb over the object next to it, even while it was smaller; You could shoot through a lot of walls, but not through a wooden plank for example.

     

    Really, COD5 was the best in my opinion (where the hell are these vehicles?), COD 4 was also very good (the other MW games couldn't top this one), Black ops 1 was really fun to play (good atmosphere), but I have to say that Black Ops 2 deserves a place next to COD5 (just cause you can't compare the 2 games).

     

    I hope y'all appreciate my comment and I'm interested in your comments on this subject

     

    Greets

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
    Ss78_

    Good post, bit long but still good. Good game with sub par matchmaking/netcode for people with decent internet.

    • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

      Have played on same connection for two years. Always sucked. Finally okay on Black Ops 2. They just leveled the playing field.

      • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
        supervelous

        lol i hate when people say this.  People are saying, and posting vids in some cases, where they shoot the guy 4-5 times, then in the killcam the guy saw them first and their character didn't even shoot. 

         

        If someone is just losing gunfights, then OK maybe they had an advantage before and not now.  But when it's like me, experiencing the above, and the killcam is stuterring and skipping, and I have a 50 down, 8 up connection, I don't think I just all of a sudden suck at Call of Duty because "the playing field has been leveled"

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
    nicedrewishfela

    This is always helpful at understanding how this works.

     

    http://www.charlieintel.com/bo2-intel/the-elagaphant/

     

    I haven't had any major issues yet. Week one, I think we'll see improvement down the line.

    • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

      Drew, thanks.  Very familiar with macs work (and capps too!).  So here is the question..has his has been CONFIRMED by the gamemakers?  Not that I don't trust mac, very smart guy and love his work on this issue.  But I really would like the gamemaker to put out an official statement.  

       

      Lag comp – Now this is an area that causes more complaints and myths than any other aspect of online Call of Duty gaming . I really don’t want to spend to long on this as its such a wide subject we could be here for days. What I want to address is the most common myths and misconceptions people have about this. It is also worth noting Developers will not discuss aspects in detail as the systems and code they all use is proprietary information.

      First off lag comp is a generic term , it isn’t one thing it’s many different things that people have bundled into one all encompassing phrase and scapegoat.  Anyone who grew up pc gaming will remember what happens when “lag” affects gaming, One of the things  ”lag comp” does is to smooth out the visuals you see on screen.  So we don’t have players that seem to skip across the screen , or you or other players don’t appear to be attached to bungee cords. ~What “lag Comp” DOES NOT do is penalise a players connections nor does it penalise players with “best money can buy internet connections”.

      • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
        lonogottagun

        Yeah, except for the fact that he does nothing to back up his claim.  We don't need Treyarch to admit to or confirm Lag Compensation.  It is as plain as day!  Just play Core for a few hours, and every time you lose a gun fight, watch the killcam.

         

        To be clear, when those of us feeling the woes of Lag Compensation say we are "punished" or "penalized" for having a good connection, we are not saying that someone is maliciously affecting our game.  We are merely expressing the result of having our game experience adversely affected by a compensation that gives someone with a slower connection an advantage.  In other words, having a fast connection means what I see isn't what happens, so every gun fight feels like a cheat.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    I guess its all down to personal experiance in the end.  MW3 was a nightmare for me 50 - 50 chance at best, for a good conection and a good game. Soooo frustrating that many nights i would switch it off and go play Zombies instead.

     

    So far no issues with Black Ops 2 totally delighted with it, great maps, i love that you can get shot from anywhere, i love that you can spawn anywhere and that the spawn trapers find themselfs getting shot in the back for a change.

     

    Most of all i love that i am getting 4 green bars all the way and apart from the odd player being a little in front of me which you have to take the good with the bad i am sure in some games there are guys that are a little behind me also.

     

    As for all the threads with people bagging the lag comp, and saying the game is unpalyable etc.  I have to say i just have not experianced it.  Not putting down the guys that are having that experiance as i said earlier it drove me mad in MW3 so i feel for you.  But for me this is the best COD since WAW.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
    Moofda

    I read the whole thing and I agree 100 percent. Well stated. I have played since COD 2 myself and noticed the online experience changed after MW2 as far as lag.  I hope it gets sorted. I understand not everyone is suffering a negative experience but I'm in the same boat as the OP and Super.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    The question has to be asked:  How could it be this bad?  How could they make a game with so many problems, so many flaws, and so many complaints after having 2 years to make it?

     

    You only listed 2 flaws, actually - you said you don't like Lag Compensation and you said the spawning is broken. I even agree with you, but the rest of the game is amazing! You say yourself that spawning has never worked well in a Call of Duty game, so you ca't blame treyarch for not getting it right this time either. So really the only problem is Lag Compensation, and I'm confident that if it's not a temporary problem because it is launch week Treyarch will put out a patch to even things out.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    You should not be punished for having a good Internet connection. I pay extra money every month for the strongest connection possible, if people only pay for basic Internet they should have to deal with the lag and not drag down other players.

     

    On a side note, a problem that i have noticed with the game that has not been adressed is the fact that i cannot hear the enemy team. I use headphones like most people and not being able to hear a guy running up behind me drives me crazy. Black Ops2 even teamed up with Turtle Beach this year to make headphones, you would think they would make them some what usefull. People complained about it in Black Ops1 and they patched it, why would you create the same problem you already had to fix once.

    • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

      Lag compensation is in theory a great idea. But its just not working the way it should.
      I also run a decent internet connection 30/30 adn still have this problem. Before i had a 60/15 connection and the results where the same. What i dont understand is that players with very solid internet connections are just not placed together in the same lobby. Also i would prefer to play with local people as much as possible. This would also reduce the lag effect.

       

      About the spawns, yeah i have seen some frustrating stuff, go on hijacked and patrol the spawn points. You can spawn kill enemy there easy. I tried this out an i even saw players spawn right in front of me. If it was you sorry but i just wanted to test it. Its a shame this is possible.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    Think its a bit harsh saying that if your internet is crap then tough luck and those with good internet speeds should have all the benefits and not be penelised.  I'm on a crap 3mbps d/l and its not through choice!  If i could get a superfast fibre optic 50mbps internet i would get one.

     

    What should be happening is players are put into lobbies based on location and/or connection speeds.  Location is my main gripe.  I'm here in the UK and when playing against American I keep getting my ass handed to me.  I'm shooting at them in the back and they manage to turn around lie down and fire off a few bullets to kill me.  Kill cam shows i fired nothing!  BS!

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    I, for one, had no idea they added lag compensation to this game.  Having a good connection in the majority of the games I play, I just hope for a clean, smooth game.  I am branded the host almost every game I tried and this wall hacking aimbot experience I get almost every game.  Such BS, I had no idea that is what was happening.  I blamed hip fire spray garbage but really Treyarch just doesn't want people with good connections to play.  May whoever thought this was a good idea be burdened with my curse.  Can't play anymore until this is removed.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    I have been playing this game for 5 years and ONLY play hardcore and hardly ever suffer from lag comp. The obviouse solution is to play hardcore and in the thousands of matches I have played I have only been kicked a handful of times for accidental team kills so I don't see why you have a problem with that. This is one of the best Call of Duty titles I have played so it's crazy for me to see so many ppl complaining. Then again, the C in CoD stands for crybaby. That my friends is a fact. Kill or get killed!!

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
    zingaa

    Very nice post op, this might start out to be one of the best threads as of late...The only thing that truly bothers me right now is the lag comp, everything else I can deal with and will adjust to.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
    lonogottagun

    Thanks for all the replies!  Even those who disagreed with me did so in a gracious and kind manner.

     

    I would like to respond to those saying they like Lag Compensation because it has "leveled the playing field".

     

    It has not leveled the playing field.  It has, in effect, slanted the playing field in the favor of whoever the game deems as "deserving compensation".  I had a game last night where I won practically every gun fight.  I went 42/10.  And you know what?  It wasn't satisfying.  Why?  Because I could tell it wasn't my skill that was winning the gun fights.  I would round corners and guys would just take the bullets, rarely firing back more than one shot.  Then, the next game, I was on the receiving end of it, and went 10/22.  It was the same players, same teams, but it migrated hosts in the lobby for some reason, and then bam, I couldn't win a single gun fight.

     

    And for those saying their experience has been great so far, I'll give you some bad news.  It won't last.  Eventually the community will shrink a bit (it always does after a while), and then you will be on the receiving end of this more than you are now.  Right now it may happen a few games here and there, because you're connection is slower than most of those you play against.  But eventually, you'll be playing with lots of slow connection people, and then it's a crap shoot of who gets the advantage.  Once you feel the irritation of all skill being removed from the equation, and the game being ultimately decided by an arbitrary connection advantage, you'll know why so many of us have been so vocal about it.

     

    Finally, the article that claims Lag Compensation does not punish those with good connections.  That article does nothing to back up it's claims, and offers some router settings as a way to help with connection speeds.  The very fact that the article is promoting people tweaking their xbox and router settings is proof that something is wrong!  What other game have you recently purchased where you needed to jump through hoops to get a decent and reliable connection?  Also, many of my friends have tried plugging directly into their modem with no improvement.  And, more importantly, they have had zero problems with all of their other games.  But all of a sudden, Black Ops 2 makes them feel like they are on a sluggish, packet jammed, unreliable connection.  It is Lag Compensation.  Plain and simple.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
    lonogottagun

    For all of those who enjoyed this review and would like to see it get more attention, I've placed this review on Amazon

     

    http://www.amazon.com/review/R21G5CLK599HHI/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B007XV TR3K&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=#wasThisHelpful

     

    Go and click that you found it helpful to help my ratio (currently 30/45) so that it shows up as the most helpful negative review.  Currently the most helpful critical review is largely positive and doesn't fairly represent the problems in the game.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    OP: Don't you think it's a little contradictory to mention how erratic the spawns are on nuketown and, immediately after, describe how easy spawn trapping is?

     

    Regardless, the lag compensation is horrible. I have 300 down/80 up with <12ms ping and <50ms ping across the country (~2500 miles) wired. I went from a 3 kdr aggressive playstyle lifetime in MW3 and 2.55 kdr domination (~500th in SPM) in Black Ops to a ~1.00 kdr player with the same play style in BO2. I refuse to change my playstyle because of the connection. I simply quit playing.

     

    I switched to my wireless as a test which chokes my connection down to 20 down/20 up with 25-30 ms ping on a close server and ~70-80 ms across the country. My connection magically improved, but was still behind. When I was wired it was ungodly awful. I still , on wireless, consistently got two hit markers in the killcam before the enemy even stops running to pull up his gun and suddenly my bullets stop hitting.

     

    You can't win in those situations. I'm ok with internet woes every so often. Everybody gets them, but not every game. Nor this bad. Lag compensation is fine. What I was dealing with is not.

     

    PS. Yes, I have a port-forwarded xbox360 with an OPEN NAT. Connection was described above. For anyone wondering about more details, <1 ms jitter and 0% packet loss wired or wireless.

    • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
      lonogottagun

      I should probably be clearer about the difference.  Thank you.

       

      The spawn system is easy to show as being broken with respect to enemies spawning behind you by doing the test I outlined for Nuketown.  This, however, does not negate how easy it is to spawn trap on game modes like DOM and CTF where you generally spawn in the same place.  I played a game just yesterday where my buddy and I got thrown into a losing game of CTF and the other team just camped behind our spawn and shot us in the back whenever we attempted to move out of spawn or clear them out.  It was the map called Raid, and they just hid in the garage behind the cars and around one of the corners.  So this was actually worse than spawn trapping, this was spawn camping.  In either scenario, where the game decides to spawn people behind you, as I proved with Nuketown, or when people trap or camp you in spawn, this is a failure to have good and fair spawns by the devs.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    I was actually enjoying the game until they took out Nuketown 24/7 and basically the whole Nuketown map in general.

     

    Can you even rank up in custom games?

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    " I had a game last night where I won practically every gun fight.  I went 42/10.  And you know what?  It wasn't satisfying.  Why?  Because I could tell it wasn't my skill that was winning the gun fights.  I would round corners and guys would just take the bullets, rarely firing back more than one shot.  Then, the next game, I was on the receiving end of it, and went 10/22.  It was the same players, same teams, but it migrated hosts in the lobby for some reason, and then bam, I couldn't win a single gun fight."

     

    This says it all. It is the inconsistency of the whole thing that makes you realize the "system" is broken.

     

    I am certainly not claiming to be great at this game but I hold my own and the fact I play with the same goup of guys on a reg basis probably makes me look better than I am lol but I have always had a pos K/D and way above average W/L. My team has some objective whores, some slayers etc. A really good mix. We will be tearing it up one game and host migrates and cannot hit sh** the next game and end up losing.

     

    Even in previous titles, were there some issue with connection etc. yes, but my crew could more often than not overcome the connection issue, maybe go negative K/D but would still win the vast majority of game due to teamwork etc. Not so much in BOPS2, the connection is so inconsistent and bad in some games that it is the actualy cause for the loss.

     

    I know it is still early and I have way more confidence in Trey to actually follow up and fix things so I will reserve judgement and continue to play this game but this needs to get fixed and more well thought out posts like this one are the ones that will get noticed. Well put together OP.

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    this is a good assesment and actually brings to light some of my issues that stem from lag compensation. i have been playing since cod4 which to me will always be the greatest call of duty game and will hold a place dear in my heart becuase it was so good. i hated waw so i wont comment, mw2 was good and black ops was better then i gave it credit for initially. mw3 was infinity ward's fall from grace, and early on blops 2 is looking like it will be trey archs. I was actually preparing to take this season of call of duty off to play some other games, and see if i can rejuvante myself and play call of duty again fresh. however i bought into the hype of this game, and seeing gameplay, i truely thought there were some excellent improvements. however the lag compensation and connection issues in general have just been killing me. the connection issues that stem from the servers, i believe will just take some time, lets see if treyarch can get its act together, and who knows maybe this will make the lag compensation bearable. my other big issue is hit detection. i felt like i was shooting someone and the bullets did not register even though i was on target(I am incredibly accurate in every cod game, and even that is down). with that being said, every call of duty i have been above a 1.0 k/d regardless of connection issues or lag compensation, hit detection has to be addressed very quickly or to me it will go the way of mw3. as for lag compensation and connection issues, i would like to give it till xmas to see if the servers get going and that solves the issue. thats my stance

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review

    read the whole thing (had nothing better to do i was pissed off at BLOPS 2) and i agree 10000000000000000000000%

  • Re: A Thoughtful Negative Review
    lonogottagun

    I found the most blatant proof of lag compensation in this video...