31 Replies Latest reply: Jun 16, 2012 12:10 PM by EliteForce958 RSS

Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport

ghamorra

The solution to occassionally brought issues of nerfing the knife, Assassin/Ghost users, and spamming of airsupport might rest in the way classes are laid out for the user. The fixes to these issues lie in a three tier weapon layout; Primary, Secondary, and Launcher. Your primary weapon is the standard choices, secondary however is pistols only, and launchers...self-explanatory


MELEE

I agree that being killed by a knife instantly is annoying, and even more annoying is being killed by a panic knifer that you clearly have the jump on. I do feel however that their needs to be some way to stealthly kill someone when you have them by surprise. So here's my solution; Make meleeing with a knife only possible with a pistol. Any other form of the R3 button (default) results in meleeing with the butt of the players gun giving a 50% concussion grenade effect to the enemy. If a player is looking for a stealth kill they would then be forced to switch to their pistol, which under the above layout will always be an option, and get the kill with the knife that they would then be able to use.

 

ANTI-AIRSUPPORT
Assassin/Ghost will always be a topic of discussion from now until eternity. However, I do think that the degree in which the controversy holds can be decreased. Most Assassin/Ghost users wear the perk because of the non-stop spamming of airsupport. Now more than ever, there's constantly something above that posses a threat due to the chaining of killstreaks and Support package. Once a player has Assassin or Ghost equip there's no need for a launcher so they opt for a more useful weapon. Also how likely would a player be to kill themselves while on a high killstreak just to equip a launcher. This can be less of an issue if players are given a slot just for launchers with their custom layout. Now that anyone at any time can take down airsupport there's less need for the perk and players can now choose something more useful to their playing style

  • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
    avengedyesterday

    I've said it before and I'll say it again they should take note on how melee works in Killzone. It's still a 1hk but the animation takes a few seconds and can be broken up by another player. I would still be okay with how knifing was in blackops. Removing most of the lunge and commando was paradise tho you still got the lag knife every once in awhile.

     

    Assassin/Ghost Is a hard one to talk about. Assassin just hide you from too much and not to mention made enemy EMP's a joke plus making counter uavs a joke.

     

    Breaking ghost up into blind eye and assassin was a good move but they over compensated assassin. They also went overboard with all the damn killstreaks in MW3.

     

    This is one of the reason why I didn't really like having a support package. While it does help newer players you also make it to where every match everyone is able to get killstreaks. I love the point system and getting +2 for capping objectives I just don't see a reason why they shouldn't reset on death. Honestly it didn't make anyone go for objective anymore than they did in any other call of duty. Those who wanted to killwhore still killwhored. Those who previously went for objectives still went for them.

    • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
      esmorgue

      I agree on the Assassin situation as usual. Also the Support system is as abused as the Assault system, IMO. you will have people purposefully give away flags just so they can cap them back. People will for no reason other than knowing they will not be reset, just die over and over.

      • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
        avengedyesterday

        esmorgue wrote:

         

        I agree on the Assassin situation as usual. Also the Support system is as abused as the Assault system, IMO. you will have people purposefully give away flags just so they can cap them back. People will for no reason other than knowing they will not be reset, just die over and over.

        True that also took away a lot of the tactical part of the gameplay when you just didn't have to worry about death anymore.

         

        The system on paper looks great. When it was put in the hands of the community it just didn't deliver.

    • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
      ghamorra

      I've never played killzone before, so I can't make a comparison. I will say though that adding a longer melee motion would be a nice change. And maybe have quickdraw speed up the motion

        • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
          ghamorra

          Seems interesting. I did notice a problem though, when the melee started the opposing player lost control of his actions. There's no way to defend yourself. At least in CoD you can continue to shoot in hoops of maybe killing the person before they stabbed you. So maybe if you can smash R3 like in BO when fending off a dog, I might like this system

          • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
            avengedyesterday

            ghamorra wrote:

             

            Seems interesting. I did notice a problem though, when the melee started the opposing player lost control of his actions. There's no way to defend yourself. At least in CoD you can continue to shoot in hoops of maybe killing the person before they stabbed you. So maybe if you can smash R3 like in BO when fending off a dog, I might like this system

            Well there is a lunge in it. But if the system was like in Call of duty where if i would have landed a knife that would have killed you I would then go into that animation.

             

            I could see something like if someone was doing it face to face to be able to mash a button to defend and maybe end up knifing them back. But if someone sneaks up behind you, nothing you can do unless a team mate shoots him before he lands the knife.

            • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
              ghamorra

              avengedyesterday wrote:

               

                I could see something like if someone was doing it face to face to be able to mash a button to defend and maybe end up knifing them back. But if someone sneaks up behind you, nothing you can do unless a team mate shoots him before he lands the knife.

               

              True, getting the stealth kill is really the only time I use the knife so not being able to defend the behind the back execution is good and that's where my defense of the current knifing system comes from

               

              I should have to slash someone twice when I have them in a perfect execution situation

              • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
                Aecetym

                Killzone 3 like in the movie came with the delay knifing. While ur knifing or breaking someones neck u were defensless urself, and also killable before u killed the other guy. The time needed to do a brutal melee kill depented of the mellee attack, some took long some were short, and where done randomly. Like in the movie u can see (long knifekill at 0:15) u hit him in the face, he runs around and then u need to knife him in his i his back. The mellee kill at 0:12 is on of the shortest, just break his neck. And if u were shoting and the guy made a run for it u could still get him with the bullets u were shooting.

                 

                Battlefield 3 got rid off the panic knife by only make u able to mellee kill some in the back or aside. Or the guy was so red that u knifed him in the face and with the little damage u did u killed him. It was a fair system cause u could help u friend still if he was on the point of getting knifed and the knifing itself took long to do and to redo it.

                 

                knifing someone in full militery gear by scraping his chest, not stabing, is not even close to instant death, not even just a nasty wound maybe.

                The idea of u being able to defend urself from a knifeattack in the face sounds great to me, in the back ur defensless.

  • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
    robbierocket

    It's a good thread.

     

    Perk & Killstreaks

    My take on the killstreaks, launchers, Ghost etc. is purely game balancing. A lot of conjecture is thrown in these forums about how having "this streak" effects how many people use "that perk" and that effects what those people equip in "that slot" which in turn effects how many of "those streaks" get shot down, etc. It's all in the balancing of the game. One small change effects the chain of effect more than a casual observer can say, and there will be opinions and counter-arguments to every scenario.

     

    One point to show this specifically with what you said ghammy, is that people with Assassin in MW3 often equip a launcher anyway because a killstreak destroyed provided both XP and a point towards a point streak. Just a small example of the complexities and conjucture that conjecture will not resolve.

     

    Knifing

    As for the knifing "hot potato", I'm against animated cut sequences in a real-time online game mode. I think the move should be in the opposite direction - towards the games "regular" state of game physics. Knives should be an equipable weapon in a third slot (*), either equipped by cycling for it OR have the knife button be the same button as equipping the knife.

     

    This way the knife is drawn in one button press and swiped in another. Still a OHK, it requires 2 presses and will therefore reduce/remove panic stabs when running into people and reduce the possibility of a knife winning against bullets.There should be no lunge (just a 1 metre range) and it should require the enemy to be on the user's screen (not this amazing 360 degree thing). Bullets should make the user flinch in the same way as normal and disturb the knife attack (make the knife attack miss in almost all circumstances).

     

    All this would lead to the knife being used almost exclusively and effectively as a stealth attack from behind, and in this setting nothing has really changed - the knife can be drawn on approach and used (silently as a OHK) then resheathed, taking the same time as in former CODs, yet as shown above with the panic stab, unstoppable lunge and 360 swipe removed.

     

    * Whether the knife is treated as a third slot, replaces the Secondary or not is open. If used as a Secondary and/or not equipped then the Primary or Secondary gun butt should do half damage (like a shield).

    • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
      ghamorra

      robbierocket wrote:

      If used as a Secondary and/or not equipped then the Primary or Secondary gun butt should do half damage (like a shield).

       

      I actually really like my 50% concussion effect. Not to toot my own horn, but I think that would be the most realistic way to treat melee from the butt of a gun. Like concussion grenade there will be some damage implemented, enough to kill someone who is in final stand/whatever they're going to call it, or if the person is critically injured

  • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport

    ghamorra wrote:

     

    secondary however is pistols only, and launchers...self-explanatory


     

    Please change this to: pistols only, and lock-on only launcher

     

    People do not need rocker launches as secondaries.

    • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
      ghamorra

      I agree that all launchers should be lock-on only, but that will never happen and I've come to accept that. Nothings more aggravating then getting rocket/tube spammed at the start of a match or off a spawn. Launchers should be used solely for the purpose of destroying vehicles and equipment

      • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
        Aecetym

        Don't agree on that, it's handy if u can work with it. U have 1 rocket so it sucks if that 1 kill u get from it is against u. So they still need to put non-guided launchers in BO2.

         

        On MW3 if u shot a non-guided missile and a AH-6 overwatch or so it would auto-deflect, BIG fail. How can a misile without heatseek be countered by flares, simply it can't but on MW3 it can.

        If i would hit a helicopter with a misile doesn't matter where, it would most likely go down. So the fact that u need like 2 to 4 rockets is overkill.

         

        btw the lock-on takes like forever with the javlin.

  • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
    esmorgue

    I love my RPG. Especially in Dom matches where there are enemies taking up position in a building near a flag....they do not have. * Go back to your spawn and think about what you did wrong...yes back that way..*

  • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport

    Are any of the Community managers even listening to what we are saying?

    • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
      robbierocket

      They probably dip in from time to time as there is a lot of useful feedback, ideas and information here in this community but I wouldn't expect feedback for the forum users from the community managers or devs. I've seen Foxhound patrolling a bit lately but he's really just keeping the foums smooth - not a direct link to the people making the game.

      • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
        Aecetym

        Sad would like to see someone of the devs or community managers replying to ideas if they are usefull or just a total wast of time, like the return of nuketown. If u liked it and just wanne keep dragging it along just keep playing BO till the end of times.

        • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
          robbierocket

          Yeah, I'm not 100% sure why they don't respond to the ideas as most of the regular forum users are sound communicators, but I will say that it's probably not deemed economic. For Black Ops, the devs picked up feedback and ideas. They were involved in dialogue and it wasn't as smooth as it obviously would be with only professionals so in a way they kind of got dragged into some drama.

           

          Furthermore, time is a factor and as I said before - using ideas doesn't have to be a 2-way communication, especially as these forums are a beta for idea discussions anyway.

  • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
    -pictureframe-

    Ghost should be in the same perk tier as both Sleight of Hand and Warlord. You can either be invisible to radar, have 2 weapon attachments, or reload faster.

  • Re: Melee, Custom Layouts, Ghost, Spamming of Airsupport
    EliteForce958

    Melee idea:

    Genius. Pure genius. Love it.

     

    Anti-airsupport idea:

    No, that's stupid. That basically neutralizes the effectiveness of killstreak rewards altogether. How dumb is it for everyone to have a rocket launcher? Why would anyone even go for killstreaks if they know it would just be shot down? The concept kills all the fun in the game.

     

    Some players use Launchers to score kills like me. I use RPG sometimes to wipe out campers. Others use Stingers or such to gain more points for Strike Packages. The thought of everyone having a launcher is plain ridiculous.